To build or not to built

[steelyeel]

Hi fellow farangs, I have a rather frustrating dilemma and need some sound advice. Would appreciate any suggestions, comments re. my situation. In a nutshell, I've been with darling for over 3 years, have a little boy and things are ok but she wants a house and understandably so. I decided to get the grandfather to give me a rai, which I haven't paid for yet. I put 260 trucks of soil on it so that's the only investment so far. The old bloke is sweet with payment later as I now find out that the 7 rai he has is mortgaged to the bank. So I can't get a chanote from him even if I did pay for my 1 rai. This is the problem. Do I build with the bank owning the land ??? Should I commit 2 mill. when there is a likelihood the bank could say that's my house or the untrustworthy uncle says bugger off that's on my rai. There are already 3 houses on the 7 rai and darling says no problem, mai pen rai, sabai sabai !!! Darling finds it difficult to understand the fact that no chanote, no build. Sometimes I say ok, let's go then trepidation, caution. We've been to the builder and I'm supposed to pay the 10% tomorrow but I'm not comfortable at all with the state of play. I'm sure most of you will say ...if you have doubt and smell a rotten fish, don't build... If I don't build until I have chanote, they still owe 700,000, darling will be very browned off, family pressure etc. WHAT TO DO ??? HELP !!!!!!!!! Appreciate any advice. Cheers

[little john]

IF i was you i would go and talk with the bank whos land it is before do any thing.

[steelyeel]

Thanks Little John ! I'll just have to put the foot on the brake until I have some reassurance from bank, family, maybe advocate ??

[fredlk]

I agree, talk to the bank. They should, with his cooperation, be able to split off a section and return the chanote, BUT the bank will get the money and not grandpapa.

[Roger Ramjet]

steelyeel,
Come on think a bit, you've been with the woman for 3 years and she's given you a son to follow in your footsteps, so now she wants security and a commitment to her and your son. The grandfather has given you a rai of land, that also is a commitment from him because he said to pay later, even though he doesn't own the land yet. This is Thailand, things happen that way, but you have been welcomed into the family and accepted as one. Me, personally, if I was in that situation, I would thank the grandfather for his generosity and thank my wife for her concern over my lack of commitment for her and my son, then proceed with the build post haste as my sign of a commitment.
Nobody holds a chanote when they buy land through the bank, the bank holds the chanote as collateral just in case there is a default in the loan repayments, which apparently there isn't otherwise you would see signs up everywhere. If the grandfather has marked out an area of 1 rai on a copy of the chanote, then all you need to do is get his blessing to build there. The bank will also take this into consideration if there is a default, it's called property improvement and they will ask all the house owners to help repay the debt.... if there is ever a default.
The bank will not, and cannot split off a section. They hold a chanote for 7 rai in the grandfather's name. The Land Office is the only place that can split the land legally, however, to do that you must have the original chanote, which in turn says the land is paid for. The bank will not talk to you, your name is not on the chanote; the only person who can do that (split the land) is your grandfather, but he can't because he doesn't fully own it yet.
Bite the bullet, if you've been with the lady for three years and have a son, build the damned house for her sake and your sons. They want security and I can't say I blame them
If it is all that suspicious with demon uncles involved, ask the old man to sign his name over the land he gave you and your wife, but for me, I would start building right away and would be ever grateful to the grandfather for his blessing.
Good luck, I hope you make the right choice.

[BKKBILL]

You could go to the bank have the darling pay off the loan and hold channote.

If your not comfortable don't continue until you are.

[dozer]

The problem with a scenario like this is you are out of the loop in the case of a foreclosure. Let's say the land value is 1m bhat and the mortgage is 800k. You build a house for 2m on the land. Now in case of a foreclosure the owner gets notified and if there is a bid at the foreclosure sale in excess of the 800k due to the bank that excess would be credited to the owner, but likely it would hardly be to the amount of the 2m excess you put on the land. So the bank or some other third party likely would end up with the house for free with little or nothing going to the family. Likely you would hear of the problem and be asked to make up any shortfall to avoid a foreclosure but it could be a reoccurring problem unless you just paid of the entire mortgage and then split the land. Also if the mortgage was done via a hard money lender (the lender would not be a bank, basically the house is pawned to a third party) the situation is even worse.

[geordie]

The way i see it you are taking a 2 million bht gamble its bad enough being a farrang and risking the potential loss of all you own to your thai other but why enhance the risk putting it in the hands of her family personally i would rather find a small plot and secure it than take a gamble on losing the land from under the house i built
maybe a trip to the bank and see if they have any reposessed land for sale might secure you somthing reasonably cheap in the area

[thunder30101]

Either way its not going to be your house but saying that no way in hell would I build on land owned by someone other than my wife and def. not with the land mortgaged already. Just remember family comes first in thailand and you are falang.

[steelyeel]

Appreciate everyone's input ! My gut feeling was always not to take the risk. I have spoken to the builder and managed to convince him that no chanote, can't build at this stage. Hold back with the plans. Quite frankly,the land was too close to the family, eventhough they are great people, I need some breathing space and also not much opportunity for my boy and hers re. education. At the moment the plan is to settle in the big smoke on 600m2 which is not like a rai of course but it is out of town and nice country. 400,000 with chanote which I think is fair in this place. The cheese and kisses is sweet with the plan although heavy resistance at first, likes the village.
Cheers

[geordie]

The 400000 seems reasonable compared to the daft prices i was getting shown land for And i am talking outskirts of village We were lucky though and bought 12 rai for nothing vitually 10 years ago about five mile from her mothers near enough to be sociable but far enough to have a life of our own My mate lives chaing rai
a couple of kilometers from the border and its with family his son is 100% thai mummy has more say in the upbringing than he does and countermands everything he does the wife obeys every instruction mummy gives whether he likes it or not the wife is off to play cards every five mins so he has a life of hell in the village and has put me off building there thats for sure