Leasing Land and Work Permit.

[singhma]

Hello to all.
I would like to know about leasing land In Thailand.
From what I gather its is ..you pay the full price for the land..then enter into a 30 year lease arrangement with the owner of the land.
Using a lawyer obviously to do this..any downfalls to this type of situation.Apart from actually owning it.
How secure is the lease agreement?.it has to be registered at land office if over 3 year lease.

Also as I want to work on land is there any way ..to do this,
Set up Company..not to buy land ..but just to work..build house etc.

Have never worried about it before , but to me its always seem like a big risk..some person, deciding at whim to dob in a falang.
Did ask a lawyer(thai) they said no as this is a protected occupation..farming , masonry work etc.

Any info greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

[BKKBILL]

Think you are commenting on a usufruct. You would pay the land tax and have this registered at the land office. Doing a search here and/or at Google (usufruct agreement thailand) will give you some answers and a lot more questions. For a sample of one in English go to

http://www.samuiforsale.com/other-misce ... ample.html

Here is a bit of what I have.

Usufruct - In contrast to a lease, a usufructury interest can be sold or transferred, although it expires upon the death of the holder of the usufruct and therefore cannot be inherited.

Limited Liability Company - this form of purchasing property is the most popular with foreign investors as the Articles of
Association can be varied to allow greater protection for foreign minority shareholders where majority Thai ownership is required under the Alien Business Law. Thai law requires that 51% of the shares be held by Thai juristic persons, however, any company with more than 40% foreign interest that purchases land will be investigated by the Central Land Office in Bangkok (under Section 74 of the Land Code) to ensure that the company has not been organized in an attempt to circumvent the prohibition against foreign ownership of land. This results in the foreign ownership of the company being limited at 39%, but with the recommended changes to the Articles of Association, the foreigner can be the only director of the company, and the only officer of
funds used to buy the condominium have been remitted from abroad and correctly recorded as such by a Thai Bank on a Tor Tor Sam. Purchases of condominiums by foreign individuals come under the jurisdiction of the Condominium Act B.E.
Photo courtesy of
provide ownership rights, as do Title deeds, they can still be registered for transfer of the lands for which they are issued.

Prior to 1998, any Thai woman who married a foreigner would lose her right to purchase land in Thailand. She could, however, still retain land that she owned prior to marrying the foreigner.

Fortunately for a lot of us this is not the case now.

[singhma]

Thanks BKKBILL,
Regarding the Usufruct agreement, I take it that, in my case, Thai person purchases property,(with my money) then I enter into Usufruct agreement with nominated person.
Upon my death, would property ownership, then revert back to the person who purchased land, not the original owner.

Only had one coffee this morning so brain not working properly.
I have very good friend( thai person)not romantically involved in anyway, who will do this for me and I would like property to, in result of my death , have ownership of land purchased to,the said person will be the one purchasing it for me and Usufruct agreement.

As part of the question I asked, I just want to work on land and other activities, that is reason for work permit,which may prove not possible.
A Company registration needed only if I can work at what I want to, not for ownership of anything.

Thanks again

Cheers.

[BKKBILL]

Regarding the Usufruct agreement, I take it that, in my case, Thai person purchases property,(with my money) then I enter into Usufruct agreement with nominated person.
Upon my death, would property ownership, then revert back to the person who purchased land, not the original owner.

That is the way it works land will revert back to whoever is registered as owning the land at land office that name will be on the chanote. If your friend registered and paid transfer tax their name will be on the back of Chanote under the last owners name. Could be prudent if you did the Usufruct at the same time as the transfer to your friends name it would protect your money and possibly save paying land tax twice.

This is from http://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/ ... -thailand/

Usufruct in Thailand
Louisa Dawn | November 8, 2011 | 0 Comments
Foreigners being forbidden to own land in Thailand are finding ways and means to be able to access and possess land legally. The most common mode of possession and control used is undertaking a lease agreement. However, there is another mode although not as popular but equally efficient. This option is undertaking a Usufruct Agreement.
An immovable property may be subjected to a usufruct by virtue of which another person is entitled to the possession, use and enjoyment of the property. In a Usufruct Agreement, the parties involved are the owner of the land, called the naked owner because he is stripped of his right over the property except the disposition thereof and the party granted to utilize the property, called the usufructuary.
To create a real right on the interest over the property it is mandated to be registered at the Relevant Land Office. By registering the usufruct agreement the public is notified of the usufruct burden on the land. Therefore it is enforceable against any third parties interested to interfere in the possession and control over the subject land such as a prospective buyer. Upon registration of the usufruct at the relevant land department, the right of the usufruct is incorporated in the Title Deed. If the property is to be subsequently sold, the buyer has to be ready to respect the usufruct attached to the property.
The basic feature of usufructs is that the usufructuary has the right to enjoy, use and possess the land. He is essentially acting like the owner but without the right to sell the same. He has the obligation to take good care of the property as if it is his own. He shall be made liable for the destruction or depreciation in value of the property unless he proves that the damage was not caused by him. However, he is not obliged to recompense for the depreciation of the property caused by the normal wear and tear of the property. It is the obligation of the usufructuary within the duration of the usufruct to shoulder the expenses incurred for the management of the property including the payment of taxes and government duties as well as the interest payable on debts charged upon it.
Another essential characteristic of a usufruct is that unless otherwise provided by the parties, the usufructuary may transfer his rights over the land to a third party. This means that the usufructuary has the right to lease the property further within the period the usufruct is enforced. However, the naked owner has the right to object to any unlawful or unreasonable use of the property. After the expiration of the term of the usufruct, the property is reverted back the owner.
Bear in mind however that not all land in Thailand can be subjected to a usufruct. This will depend on the kind of Title Deed the land is classified. This is why an interested party must consult a lawyer before agreeing into engaging into this kind of agreement. Other than that contracts such as this are drafted according to the personal circumstances of the parties involved. The rights of the parties must be duly recognized and upheld in the contract.

[Shastadad]

As part of the question I asked, I just want to work on land and other activities, that is reason for work permit,which may prove not possible.
A Company registration needed only if I can work at what I want to, not for ownership of anything.

You are talking about two separate issues here, the first being a usefruct and the second being I just want to work on land and other activities

The first was answered correctly by BKKBILL and is covered by the Thai Property Law. The second is regarding a work permit which is a Immigration issue. Just having a "work permit" does not open you to those trades or professions that are reserved for Thai nationals unless you set up a business under the BOI (Board of Investment) which requires a large investment in a registered business in Thailand (not just the purchase of property or lease using a usefruct)

I would suggest that you visit their web site and see exactly what hoops and expenses you are going to have to deal with

http://www.boi.go.th/index.php?page=set ... a_business

Regardless what you do, you will find that your options to work on land and other activities is going to be extremely limited here in Thailand so you should not base your property purchase on any expectations of working here

[singhma]

Hi..thanks Shastadad,

My main concerns were, to try not to break any laws by working around land and other projects.
I posted my questions here, because a lot of people read this forum for its valuable advice , posters contributing info, about builds, general lifestyle.

I am sure, this question has question has been asked before many times, around Thailand, must be a legitimate answer somewhere.

Have a good day to all.

Cheers.

[pipoz]

Thanks BKKBILL,

I have very good friend( thai person)not romantically involved in anyway, who will do this for me and I would like property to, in result of my death , have ownership of land purchased to,the said person will be the one purchasing it for me and Usufruct agreement.
Thanks againCheers.

Re. I have a very good Friend: That can change very quickly with a Thai, when there is significnat money (to him or her ) is involved?

Re. I just want to work on land and other activities: Why would you want to work on the land in Thailand (I pressume you are suggesting some type of farming). There is no money to be made trying off the land when trying to complete against the local Thai farmer and earn a sustainable living. You could do it for a hobby only.

pipoz

[singhma]

Hi..thanks for reply Pipoz,
I have been in Thailand over a long period..and have had a farm here before..
A good income by Thai standards, can be made here..certainly enough to pay wages for workers and running costs.
I happen to like farming..especially organic farming.
Also with fish farming as well.

People are just people, no matter where they come from..I try and see the good in others..and help those less fortunate.
I am sure we all have friends from other parts of the world..not everybody is out to rip us off.
Guess I am fortunate, as all the Thai people I know are honest and hard working, even those who have been dis guarded
by Falangs, there is still goodness in them.

The original question was about Leasing Land and Work Permit..could we please keep comments relevant to that.

Thank you.

[Shastadad]

the original question was about Leasing Land and Work Permit..could we please keep comments relevant to that

We have, you are just refusing to listen:

Prohibited Occupations in Thailand

Foreigners are allowed to work in Thailand if you have a valid visa, a work permit and are employed with an occupation that does not violate the Alien Employment Act. If you are a foreigner and you intend to work in Thailand, you are subject to the Alien Employment Act, which requires you to have a work permit to be issued by the Department of Employment, Ministry of Labour, or unless it falls within an exception of the said Act.

According to Thai law, foreigners can work in the country but factors such as the national security, as well as the need of alien labour for the development of the country are being considered. Thai nationals are still to be given priority.

Listed below are the businesses that are prohibited to foreigners:

The Alien Business Law (N.E.C. Announcement 281). Business activities falling in categories A & B are generally closed to foreigners. Under category C you must obtain a permit prior to commencing business. Businesses outside these categories are exempt. The Ministry of Commerce will also help applications of non trading offices.

Category A:

1. Agriculture: rice farming; salt farming.
2. Commercial Business: Internal trade in local agriculture products, Land trade.
3. Service business: Accounting, farming animals, architecture, advertising, brokerage, auctioning, Barber, hair dressing & beautician. Building industry.

Category B.

1. Agriculture Business: orchids, cultivation, animal husbandry including silk worm raising, timbering, fishing.
2. Industrial & Handicraft: Rice milling, Flour making, sugar, alcohol & non alcohol drinks, Ice cream, Pharmaceutical manufacturing, cold storage, timber, gold, silver and inlaid stone, wood carving, lacquer-ware, match making, cement etc, Dynamiting rocks, Manufacturing garments & shoes, Printing, newspaper publishing, silk weaving or silk printing, manufacture of finished products in silk.
3. Commercial: all retailing not in category C. Or trading not in Category C, selling food an drinks, trading of antiques & fine arts.
4. Service Industry: Tour agency, Hotels except Hotel management, photography, laundering, dress making and service jobs.
5. Land, water & i.e. Transport.

Category C.

You are allowed to do the following:
Exporting, all wholesale trades not in A & B. retiling machinery, equipment & tools, selling food, beverages that promote tourism. Industrial & handicraft Business: manufacturing animal feeds, vegetable oil extraction, textile manufacturing, dyeing, fabric printing, glass ware manufacturing, making plates and bowls, stationary & printing paper, rock salt mining, mining.

In the category, you have to apply for a work permit in order to do business legally in Thailand.

Source: http://www.thaiworkpermit.com/prohibite ... iland.html

[singhma]

Hi..thanks for the responses and the links to information.
Certainly was a lot of reading..not recommended early morning.

I asked a couple of people for help, smarter than self, in understanding complexities of Law.
Have been able to come up with a solution, not exactly what I wanted, but in a round about way it will do nicely.

Over the next month will post what I have been able to do, so others can benefit from, if needed, the information.

Have a great day.

[jazzman]

Perhaps you would like to read some of the earlier , highly informative, posts in this forum from a couple of years ago. The answers are all there and some of us went to a lot of trouble to write them. You just need to go through the index.

[fredlk]

In Thailand the land value tax is more but as compare to rapidly increases value of property this tax is acceptable.Although the efficiency of a land value tax has been change by economical condition.

Come again

[jazzman]

I think what he is saying is probably on the lines that the official land value index is much lower than the actual prices demanded by the vendors. In my experience therefore, it's a mistake to tell the land office exactly how much was paid for the land. For exapmle, land prices on the Western Udon Thani bypass that is now being widened from 2 lanes to six lanes have shot up 6 fold in the last 7 years. It takes the government a while to adjust their index. On my original 1 rai I paid duty on a value of 145,000 Baht. The half-rai plot next door, currently a manioc plantation, is on sale for 750,000 ! And we are over 50 Km over narrow pot-holed roads from the nearest largish town. ~~~~

[fredlk]

I think what he is saying is probably

I think what he's saying is that he copied the text from someone who can't speak English and neither can he. He's most likely from the subcontinent northwest of here.
Anyhow, land tax here on the one unbuilt plot we have is 32 Baht per annum. I don't think we need go without anything in order to pay it.

[MGV12]

In Thailand the land value tax is more but as compare to rapidly increases value of property this tax is acceptable.Although the efficiency of a land value tax has been change by economical condition.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain exactly what you do mean.