resurvey chanote to avoid short land

[dozer]

If you are buying any land with a chanote title deed you need to be aware that the stated land size (on the chanote) might not be accurate. This is especially true for land surveys that were done long ago (10 years or more). In any event, you can buy land subject to it being resurveyed by the land department. Common sense might tell you that if the land was missurveyed you might end up a couple of square wah short, not so - may be 10% or more!

more here: http://coolthaihouse.com/blog/?p=231

[martino]

This is intended as a comment on a recent blog article -"short area on chanote".

Just a thought - any mileage in wandering around the perimeter of the land with a GPS and logging a few points?? Then the area could be worked out with reasonable accuracy back at base (possibly with the help of a "smarter" friend)

If you set the GPS to UTM co-ords (Universal Transverse Mercator) you should get points that are basically the distance in metres from a fixed reference somewhere over the horizon. I believe the *absolute* accuracy of GPS depends on the current mood of the US defence department but if you're taking measurements at one time relative to each other it should be pretty good.

Haven't tried this as was in Surat when the idea occurred and couldn't find anywhere selling GPS units :/

[dozer]

I don't know how a gps would work exactly. An interesting aside is in the case of this plot of land, the measurements on the scale drawing on the face of the chanote were correct, only the computed area was incorrect. This makes some sense as to bogus up the total area is easier than changing all the dimensions of the land, since all of the plots go together in a 'master map' (changing one dimension will throw off other plots). Just by scanning the plot into a program like 'sketchup' (drawing tool) and computing the area will tell you what it should be. In my case it was very close.

Normally the ticket is just to get the land resurveyed.

[Wizard]

I don't know how a gps would work exactly. An interesting aside is in the case of this plot of land, the measurements on the scale drawing on the face of the chanote were correct, only the computed area was incorrect. This makes some sense as to bogus up the total area is easier than changing all the dimensions of the land, since all of the plots go together in a 'master map' (changing one dimension will throw off other plots). Just by scanning the plot into a program like 'sketchup' (drawing tool) and computing the area will tell you what it should be. In my case it was very close.

Normally the ticket is just to get the land resurveyed.

Normal GPS Unit (Commercial) is not accurate enough. The GPS is accurate for about 10 meters (New) - 20 meters (old unit).

Militairy Units are accurate for about 1-2 meters, but they are not for sale I am afraid. So GPS will not solve your problem. Thai Land department put stones in the ground ( about 1 meter deep) to limit the ground size. Sometimes these stones (markers) are more then 50 years old and moved with layers in the ground. In small villages there are other markers and the accuracy is is not so good as in the western world. So sometimes your fancy garden of about 1-2 meters will have to move.

[robint]

hi guys, I bought a Garmin gps unit a couple of years ago. Its brilliant. I can concirm that the accuracy is +/- 3 m on a good day. You can see this by walikg up one side of a road and then down the other side of the road. Its clearly visible. I store the data then download it to my PC via the lpt1 serial port. Its is stored as a DXF file which I then import into autoCAD. very easy

It then draws the Track I have taken as a series of polylines

hope you understand my terminology so far

I have been able to map most of the farm roads in my area (as there are no official maps or sigh posts.

It works surprisingly well

When we bought our farm, i compared my survey of the perimeter with the official Survey which was then superimposed on an aerial photo. Iwas

44 rai and they were 42.5 approx, not tooo bad for an irregular shaped piece of land.

I think the accuracy would drop significanlty if you were just trying to map out 1 rai say.

Readings can be quite erratic sometimes for no reason. you must have a clear view of the sky. overhead trees can block the signal sometimes

nonetheless a great piece of kit

[Ozode]

Dear all:

I agree with Dozer's assessment, I am a land owner in the states and I have learned through bitter experience the value of a survey before you purchase land. Even here in the states where surveys and deed calls area fairly accurate you have problems, I would never buy a piece of land anywhere without the completion of a successful survey. I Know to many people that have moved pins or changed calls between deeds and taken in land that is not theirs and usually even here it takes years and a lot of money to straighten out the problem. Always survey your land. It is just smart business to do so.
For those of you out their who want to save money, if you are in the states you should be able to find an older survey instrument at most local pawn shops for cheap. Do a little reasearch, buy a good survey instrument and then take a class at a local Junior college in survey engineering, I think that it might be under the title of civil engineering at some places. This one class will teach you all you need to know about surveying and then you can check the accuracy of the calls yourself.
Oh and when you are surveying your neighbors will get nervous about it, so invite them to help or at least consult with them about where corners are, it always makes for less trouble later. I am sure that it is the same in Thailand.

[John]

I have had 2 land area disputes in the past year. The first was misplaced ground markers and the other a boundary dispute from a Thai trying to catch a few Baht.

The wait time for a survey in Sopan Buri was 3 days. In Pattaya it was 4 weeks so I had to call in a favour and bribe someone to get a fast survey.

Like Dozer says, it pays to double check and more so if your land is in expensive zones.

[michaelbutters]

A land surveyor will research the documents available about your land, including titles and previous surveys. Then, they will physically measure the property, and check these dimensions against the previous records to find any discrepancies. Land surveyors can also use electronic equipment, GPS positioning, or other devices to determine the boundaries of your property.

<Dozer, removed spam links, not automated spam anyway>

[Nawty]

How much do these surveyors normally charge for just a check like this ?

[dozer]

How much do these surveyors normally charge for just a check like this ?

Normally everyone here just uses the land office to do the survey. They have all the records and will come out for a nominal fee. They dig up all of the border posts, verify position, and check if any are missing. I believe the fees are a few thousand depending on area.

[fredlk]

How much do these surveyors normally charge for just a check like this ?

Normally everyone here just uses the land office to do the survey. They have all the records and will come out for a nominal fee. They dig up all of the border posts, verify position, and check if any are missing. I believe the fees are a few thousand depending on area.

If I recall it was 1,000 Baht per Chanoot.

[Nawty]

Thanks....would have thought it would be a private surveyor team to do just a check.

Would have thought the land office would say bugger off as to busy....or wait 3 months etc.

[fredlk]

Would have thought the land office would say bugger off as to busy....or wait 3 months etc.

It took one phone call to make an appointment for the next day.

[MGV12]

Thanks....would have thought it would be a private surveyor team to do just a check.

Would have thought the land office would say bugger off as to busy....or wait 3 months etc.

We asked the land office in Maejo [Chiang Mai] to do check our piece of dirt as we have [had as it now appears to be resolved] a minor dispute with the guy who sold it. This was on May 17th ... they charged us 1600 THB and we are booked for July 6th; so just over 7 weeks. I was informed that the cost is supposed to be standard wherever you apply but the delay appears to vary depending on location/workload/whether 'tea money' is paid/can we be bothered/you are a farang etc etc; usual stuff. We had the resident lawyer from the local Tessaban with us but cannot say how that affected the outcome ..... if at all.

[MGV12]

We asked the land office in Maejo [Chiang Mai] to do check our piece of dirt as we have [had as it now appears to be resolved] a minor dispute with the guy who sold it. This was on May 17th ... they charged us 1600 THB and we are booked for July 6th; so just over 7 weeks.

The survey team arrived yesterday as planned. We had to meet them at the Tessaban to show them the way, there was a head guy plus two assistants. There was a short delay as we also had to wait for the Irrigation Dept guys to arrive [two] but they knew the way; they had to be there as we have an irrigation klong along one boundary. First they wanted to know where the Chanote posts that I was aware of were, I had previously known of four of the five shown on the Chanote doc but a rampant tractor driver had covered up two of them so they took some finding. The irrigation guys claimed that one of the posts on the klong side was one metre too close to the klong [should be 15 metres from the centre] and so, even though they agreed it was were the previous survey team had placed it, it had to be moved; so we lost a metre at that point but in reality it makes little difference. On another side we have a small stream and the posts should be 7 metres from it's centre .... however .... the bank has collapsed and so they placed the posts as close on the stable flat land as possible, saying that it would not affect our land area Even though these posts could not be placed accurately it did not stop them fiddling about for some time measuring and re-measuring and moving the location a centimetre this way and that way before setting the post. Note: I thought the posts would be cemented in but they just dig a small hole, place it and firm the dirt around it. They appeared to assume the 'master' pin, by the original entrance to the land, was in the correct position and worked from there; at no time was GPS involved for the positioning of the main Chanote posts.

I thought they were finished but they then started digging holes and placing posts, below ground level, at various positions on the land. Out came the surveying equipment with a camera on top and they took pictures and dimensions between each of these four extra posts plus the Chanote posts. Again GPS did not appear to be involved unless it was incorporated within the camera.

The irrigation guys said little but did look at my bridge closely, without making comment. We had been told that as it's only a small klong and as long as keep well clear of their cement liner we didn't need approval [which we understood would cost 10,000 Baht] however when they start looking around you do have a moment!

Then the paperwork started !!!! tons of it !!!! took the head guy more than 30 mins to fill out the forms and apparently still more have to be signed in front of the village head and the Tessaban.

Gratuities slipped to both departments in envelopes, as my lovely one says is expected, and off they went.

We only had it done because of a dispute, which has since been resolved, and it appeared to give us no real benefit other than knowing exactly where our five posts are; minus point being the small loss with the relocated post. However, apparently this is the 'new' way of doing the survey and if there are any more problems [hopefully not] in the future, the guy said we will have the security of knowing 100% where we stand with the paperwork to prove it ...... so maybe good insurance.