CONCRETE MIXES, STRENGTHS, PRICES & USES

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CONCRETE MIXES, STRENGTHS, PRICES & USES

Postby jazzman » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:39 am

I still receive PMs about concrete - Please do search for the information on the CTH forums or in Dozer's main pages - I'm sorry but time just does not permit me to answer them personally if they are of a general nature and of interest to all.
So, to save wading through various threads to find it, here it is, but DO check out these links too too:
http://coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672
http://www.coolthaihouse.com/infobasicmaterials.htm
and if you have something new to add, don't hesitate to post it :)

Please check later postings for updates on prices. cement powder and cncrete are transport intensive and the rising cost of diesel fuel will have an impact on the price.

The strongest mix is usually 7 bags of Portland to each cu.

Pool concrete (and renedering) must have a waterproofing agent added. I specify SILKA which costs 600 baht for a 22 ltr drum. You add 0.42 litre to every 100 kg of cement powder. There is a Thai equivalent called ATM and only costs half - this does not mean it is inferior, but I prefer, for the tiny extra cost (22 ltr is enough for a 4 x 10 pool) to err on the side of caution and recommend an international brand.

Thai readymix (CPAC) concrete 'steng' specs:

The VERY approximate quantities of materials used to generate 1m³ of a C20 (1:2:4) equivalent concrete are.....

* Ordinary Portland cement (OPC) - 350 kg
* Fine aggregate (sand) - 700 kg
* Coarse Aggregate (gravel) - 1100 kg
* Water - 190 kg (190 litres)

Current price variations are for Udon Thani. Mixing proportions for 1 cu are 2 gravel, 1 sand, 6 bags (300 kg) cement. which works out with your "i have seen a lot of posts for the c20 mix 1(cement):2(sand):4(gravel)" because a cu of concrete weights approximately 2,2 tons (with the water). It's exactly as I knew already, but if you want a slightly stronger mix you may achieve this by adding one bag more per cu. For footings and beams I usually do, and I use the 240 'steng'. Never mix concrete any wetter than it absolutely needs to be to fill all the spaces in the aggregate and to flow into the formwork. With the correct proportions of sand/gravel there should be no spaces.
If you are not sure about how stiff a mix should be, make yourself a cone and use the famous slump test.
For structural/load bearing elements be sure to buy or hire a vibrator and use it correctly.

ABOVE GROUND FLOORS:180 "Steng" @ B 1,300 - B1,530/cu
Cement: TPI Grade 199 "Green" (you will usually be pouring this over pre-stressed concrete floor/ceiling slabs - pan peun (literally: plank concrete).

ABOVE GROUND COLUMNS/BEAMS: 210 "Steng" @ B 1,500 - B1,580/cu
Cement: Tiger Brand "Green" Boon Kiow

SWIMMING POOLS 1-2 m in depth maximum : 240 "Steng" @ B 1,600 - B 1,690/cu
Cement: TPI Grade 299 "Red" Boon Daeng Portland or Nok Insi Brand: Diamond Pesch

MAXIMUM STRENGTH (strongly recommended for anything approaching 2 m depth pools) : 280 "Steng" @ B 1,700 - B1,730/ cu
Cement: Nok Insi Brand, Diamond Pesch

If the brands stated above are not available, be sure you are getting an equivalent. There is often an international cement spec printed on each bag to verify this.
Bangkok prices could be up to 50% higher for ready-mix (and Pattaya too, particularly if ordered by a farang. :) )
Last edited by jazzman on Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
How to build a $20,000 / £14,000 house and a $???? MOTEL Updated 21 March 09 - with BOQ and costs
Don't let this happen in YOUR house.
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Re: CONCRETE MIXES, STRENGTHS, PRICES & USES

Postby rosegate » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:30 am

jazzman wrote:I still receive PMs about concrete - Please do search for the information on the CTH forums or in Dozer's main pages - I'm sorry but time just does not permit me to answer them personally if they are of a general nature and of interest to all.
So, to save wading through various threads to find it, here it is, but DO check out these links too too:
http://coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672
http://www.coolthaihouse.com/infobasicmaterials.htm
and if you have something new to add, don't hesitate to post it :)

The strongest mix is usually 7 bags of Portland to each cu.

Pool concrete (and renedering) must have a waterproofing agent added. I specify SILKA which costs 600 baht for a 22 ltr drum. You add 0.42 litre to every 100 kg of cement powder. There is a Thai equivalent called ATM and only costs half - this does not mean it is inferior, but I prefer, for the tiny extra cost (22 ltr is enough for a 4 x 10 pool) to err on the side of caution and recommend an international brand.

Thai readymix (CPAC) concrete 'steng' specs:

The VERY approximate quantities of materials used to generate 1m³ of a C20 (1:2:4) equivalent concrete are.....

* Ordinary Portland cement (OPC) - 350 kg
* Fine aggregate (sand) - 700 kg
* Coarse Aggregate (gravel) - 1100 kg
* Water - 190 kg (190 litres)

Current price variations are for Udon Thani. Mixing proportions for 1 cu are 2 gravel, 1 sand, 6 bags (300 kg) cement. which works out with your "i have seen a lot of posts for the c20 mix 1(cement):2(sand):4(gravel)" because a cu of concrete weights approximately 2,2 tons (with the water). It's exactly as I knew already, but if you want a slightly stronger mix you may achieve this by adding one bag more per cu. For footings and beams I usually do, and I use the 240 'steng'. Never mix concrete any wetter than it absolutely needs to be to fill all the spaces in the aggregate and to flow into the formwork. With the correct proportions of sand/gravel there should be no spaces.
If you are not sure about how stiff a mix should be, make yourself a cone and use the famous slump test.
For structural/load bearing elements be sure to buy or hire a vibrator and use it correctly.

ABOVE GROUND FLOORS:180 "Steng" @ B 1,300 - B1,530/cu
Cement: TPI Grade 199 "Green" (you will usually be pouring this over pre-stressed concrete floor/ceiling slabs - pan peun (literally: plank concrete).

ABOVE GROUND COLUMNS/BEAMS: 210 "Steng" @ B 1,500 - B1,580/cu
Cement: Tiger Brand "Green" Boon Kiow

SWIMMING POOLS 1-2 m in depth maximum : 240 "Steng" @ B 1,600 - B 1,690/cu
Cement: TPI Grade 299 "Red" Boon Daeng Portland or Nok Insi Brand: Diamond Pesch

MAXIMUM STRENGTH (strongly recommended for anything approaching 2 m depth pools) : 280 "Steng" @ B 1,700 - B1,730/ cu
Cement: Nok Insi Brand, Diamond Pesch

If the brands stated above are not available, be sure you are getting an equivalent. There is often an international cement spec printed on each bag to verify this.
Bangkok prices could be up to 50% higher for ready-mix (and Pattaya too, particularly if ordered by a farang. :) )


I there a special tile grout recomended for salt water pools?
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Postby jazzman » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:07 pm

Yes, there is, and it's horribly expensive - over 4,000 baht (and a lot more in Kanyong) for a 20 kg tub and you'll need about 100 gk for a normal sized domestic pool.
It all depends on your pool design and choice of tiles and width of grouting. There are workarounds.
Last edited by jazzman on Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jazzman » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:10 pm

INCREASE IN READY-MIX CONCRETE PRICES

Since writing the article on concrete above, prices have increased enormously.
Eg: Steng 280 now costs 1,900 baht per cu in cheap areas - so BKK and Pattaya residents expect to be stung :cry:
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Postby dozer » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:37 pm

Good news for Pattaya anyway, prices seem to be a bit cheaper here for the pre mixed CPAC. Checked with CPAC (Chang) which is known as the best brand and 3 different Nok In see branches (known as the second best).

From today

CPAC (dra chang) is 1780/1700 per Q. (280/240).
Nok in See is from 1437/1400 per Q (cheapest) to 1600/1520 (most expensive).
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Postby jazzman » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:36 pm

Nok Insee (Diamond quality) is another brand. Important for steng 280 and up, is that Portland cement is used, usually 7 bags per cu. Top qulity Portland, whichever brand, is now around 125 baht per bag up here.
TPI, for doing basic brickwork, is 90 baht a bag. boonchaap, for rendering (stucco) is 100 baht.
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Postby dozer » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:52 pm

On the cement bags prices are similar here. Portland Chang is 140, Nok 130, TPI 125. Sua Plus (for render) 95, Nok Daeng 115 (render or basic brick work).
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Postby jazzman » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:49 am

It never hurts to use a better quality cement for any job (except really special types for really special jobs). The price difference between standard cement like Sua or TPI and portland of any brand is really so small, that for the couple of hundred - or less - bags to build a 150 sq.m. house, it's not worth trying to make a saving. Anyone trying to save 2,000 baht on the price of the cement for a 1.5 mio.baht house, is probably underfunded 8)

Plus the fact of course, that if one orders a large lot, say 200 bags, for one delivery of one sort for all, would get you a discount.
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Re: CONCRETE MIXES, STRENGTHS, PRICES & USES

Postby tung » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:17 am

Prices obtained from CPAC today in Hua HIn for delivery up to 15 Kms


210 Steng - 1,445 baht

280 Steng - 1500 baht
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Re: CONCRETE MIXES, STRENGTHS, PRICES & USES

Postby jazzman » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:46 am

Sounds good, almost exactly the same prices here in Isaan last week. paid 1,850 for steng 280 in January 2008. (genuine CPAC depot).
How to build a $20,000 / £14,000 house and a $???? MOTEL Updated 21 March 09 - with BOQ and costs
Don't let this happen in YOUR house.
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Re: CONCRETE MIXES, STRENGTHS, PRICES & USES

Postby thailazer » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:11 pm

Ran into this old but very useful thread. We just payed 1700 baht a cubic meter for 210 steng CPAC up north of Chiang Mai.
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Re: CONCRETE MIXES, STRENGTHS, PRICES & USES

Postby MGV12 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:37 pm

thailazer wrote:Ran into this old but very useful thread. We just payed 1700 baht a cubic meter for 210 steng CPAC up north of Chiang Mai.


That's sounds about right ... also interesting to note Jazzman's price from nearly 3 years ago as it's in the same ballpark today.

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
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Re: CONCRETE MIXES, STRENGTHS, PRICES & USES

Postby trader » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:55 pm

MGV12 wrote:.. also interesting to note Jazzman's price from nearly 3 years ago as it's in the same ballpark today.


yes mgv12 but :)

jazzmans 1850 baht price were in the halycon days where most building materials (in particular steel)were going through the roof as a result from the 2007 financial melt down etc etc

was doing a build at that time and can assure you it was russian roulette in purchasing materials :)

either to sit on the sidelines waiting for the prices to abate or purchase when required or purchase in advance

they were testing times :lol:

these days they talk about getting stung ( small nicks etc etc) :lol: :lol: :lol:

they have got it easy compared to the 2008 days :D :lol:
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Re: CONCRETE MIXES, STRENGTHS, PRICES & USES

Postby trader » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:50 pm

tung wrote:Prices obtained from CPAC today in Hua HIn for delivery up to 15 Kms


210 Steng - 1,445 baht




mgv12 :)

perhaps thailazers 1700 baht price should be compared to tungs 1445 baht price that jazzman agreed with :) (feb 2009)

no same ball park figure :) approx 18% increase :)
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Re: CONCRETE MIXES, STRENGTHS, PRICES & USES

Postby MGV12 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:00 pm

trader wrote:
MGV12 wrote:.. also interesting to note Jazzman's price from nearly 3 years ago as it's in the same ballpark today.


yes mgv12 but :)

jazzmans 1850 baht price were in the halycon days where most building materials (in particular steel)were going through the roof as a result from the 2007 financial melt down etc etc



Exactly ... like riding a bucking bronco ... but it has taken three years to get back there.

As with Tung's price, regional variations will always be a factor but from now on the only way is up ... and the BKK flood is the perfect excuse being used by many to escalate prices.

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