PVC Windows and Doors

Information about windows and doors.

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PVC Windows and Doors

Postby dozer » Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:30 am

I am considering using PVC windows and doors on my next project -- which is still in the early planning stages. I've seen PVC and like it but haven't done any research yet. Am interested in hearing specifics about what to look out for, quality issues, price ranges, etc.

Along these lines Noah from Duro-products (supplier of PVC window/door solutions in Thailand) has volunteered some info and will be able to anwser some questions.

For those of you currently using PVC windows/doors, please post what you know also.
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Postby dozer » Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:31 am

POSTED for Noah (duro-products) supplier of PVC windows/doors in Thailand.

One of the newer and more popular materials used for windows is uPVC – widely used worldwide but a relatively new product here. The advantages of uPVC in a tropical climate over wood and aluminium are many.

When choosing uPVC windows it is important to determine the source of the material - buyer beware, as with all construction materials there are cheap imports available from China that do not perform well and do not match European specification.

uPVC windows are factory manufactured with fusion welded corners and joints which are fully waterproof.

uPVC windows can be either made to measure to cement openings or “wet installed” which has an advantage in terms of installation cost and overall effect. In a wet installation, the windows are installed into the concrete blocks before cement render and plaster is applied.

Durability – uPVC windows are designed to last for your property’s lifetime. They never need painting and will look as good as new for decades.

Waterproofing – they are fully resistant to strong tropical rain and remain leak proof through even the most violent storms.

Pollution – with no adverse effects from the chemical pollution found in cities and industrial areas, PVCu Windows will stay clear and bright after many years.

Salt Water – Seawater and spray have no effect on PVCu Windows and Doors.

Sunlight – designed for maximum UV and Infrared resistance, – PVCu windows have been used in the Middle East, Singapore and tropical USA for the last 3 decades.

Humidity – uPVC windows will not warp, rot or break down in humid climates.

Wind – ideally suited to seaside locations and for use in high-rise buildings, uPVC windows maintain their strength through fully reinforced galvanised steel inner frames.

Noise Reduction – the double-seal system in uPVC windows and doors combined with insulating glass greatly reduces noise down to 1/8 of the original noise level(33-43dB).

Termites – such creatures often destroy wooden windows and wooden sub frames for aluminium windows in tropical climates, but ants and termites cannot attack uPVC.

Fire – PVCu is self-extinguishing – it will not catch fire and will not allow fire to spread. Profiles are manufactured under DIN 18 830 standard.

uPVC windows and doors can be double glazed with insulating glass which has further advantages when considering air-conditioning costs and reducing outside noise.

Aluminium is cheaper than uPVC but its disadvantages can be seen in time. The cheaper aluminium systems available in Thailand do not stand the test of time. Aluminium used is nearly always very thin which means that locks and fittings become loose in time, they squeak and get sticky and when used near the sea, the salt water corrodes the aluminium at the corners.
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Postby dozer » Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:32 am

Thanks for the info. As one that is considering using PVC windows on my next project getting my questions answered is probably a good place to start.

First off I always refer to the windows as 'PVC windows'. Here we have two new terms, uPVC and PVCu. I take it PVCu is the classification of PVC material, correct?

There are many dealers of PCV windows with massively different price points. What specifically can a buyer look for and what are the various price points (appx). Is it priced by the square meter?

What are the various options on glass that can be installed within the PVC windows?
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Postby dozer » Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:33 am

POSTED for Noah (duro-products).

Definition. the "u" stands for "unplasticised" and uPVC, PVC, PVCu or Vinyl are commonly used terms around the world. As with just about everything in Thailand, it is always difficult for people to pick one term and stick with it. I am sure you have come across such things as "it is 15cm by 4 inches"!

Key points are:

1) is the profile made in Europe or China - Chinese profiles are cheaper, and much flimsier, although the overall apperance from teh oustide is identical.
2) Is the reinforcing steel strong?
3) What about the fittings? Are they up to the job - again, made in China for that market or for the European market?
4) Any glass can be fitted into PVCu windows: Clear, tinted, antiusn, reflective, single, double, low-e and so on.

Some people price by the sqm although this is not sensible as it does nto give a fair representation of price - smaller windows are cheaper, big ones much more expensive. People that price using sqm bet on jobs having a large surface area - for big sliding doors, the amount of peripheral material is much less per sqm than small windows. We price on materials used plus markup. Generally, as a rule, quality products will come in between 4,500 and 6,500 per sqm depending on spec. Expensive glass and fitting can push this up quite a bit.

Hope that this helps
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Postby teletiger » Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:53 pm

I am in the throes of deciding which quote to accept.
Aluminium windows, using 5 mm metal. average quality fitting 118,500 Baht
Teak grade b (but not bad) fitting quality unknown, 220,000 Baht.
Uvpvc, single glazed, average quality at best, 230,000 Baht.
In truth I don't want to use any of them, but houses need windows right?
:(
regards
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uPVC windows & doors

Postby cruzing » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:08 am

At the request of Dozer I'm posting an e-mail I sent to him.

Hi Dozer,
uPVC is also supposed to be UV resistant.

Having checked many mfr of PVC windows around the area, we found you have to take great care in what you buy. Most of the less expensive ones (but still pricey) do not come with screens, and do not offer any screen, and are flimsy.

Mr. Cruzing had to tell the window screen maker how to fabricate a screen that would work on 3 of the windows we purchased here. In the states screens always come with the windows, no matter what style or type you buy.

The other people I know that have bought UPC windows, one was windsor, and they had the retracteable screens installed. Another person I know has pvc and no screens came with them either.

After Dorken came out and fixed our window leaking problems, they told us they have had a lot of problems with these windows. They now have a line of windows that have screens and are better made, but still have some design flaws. I have a friend in Chiang Mai that has them in her new house.

I also spoke with the mfr of some doors and windows, made to U.S. standards, when I was at the architect show in BKK. A point of interest is that they also export doors, so the thickness is made to U.S. standards and you don't have to re-do your doorknobs to fit well. You can check them out at
http://www.amwnd.com

So buyer beware. Sometimes you don't get what you pay for.

Cruzing
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pvc windows

Postby cruzing » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:05 pm

I just happened to run across this site on Thai Visa commercial section.

Take a look. http://www.duro-products.com Doors and windows.

I'm not saying these are good doors and windows, you have to check them out for yourself to see how they are made and if screens can be added or come with.

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Postby Attila » Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:41 pm

I did install PVC windows in my house (I posted about this here before).

Noah from Duro and also Peter from WRVinyl (that's where I did buy) do offer window frames from Thyssen Polymer, one of the biggest and probably the best manufacturer of PVC profiles in the world.

Using these Thyssen profiles, made in Germany, you can rely on the quality, meaning no change of color, UV-resistance, looking new all the time. The secret is that the PVC mix with stabilizers, pigments and additives is just done thoroughly and consistently, no spots with less and others with more as it can happen with low quality PVC profiles.

Then the strength of the PVC is not the same. I think Duro is offering the 2 mm strength, which is fine. However I preferred the 3 mm strength, which Peter from WRVinyl has on stock too.

My neighbor did check out the Windsor windows, but after seeing the Thyssen frames I had he did get the 2 mm profiles from Thyssen, and told me after that the Windsor windows would have not been cheaper.

So if you get an offer anywhere, be aware that the quality Thyssen frames can be at the same price level as others in the 2 mm version, and if you want the best only, like me, there is the 3 mm version too, which however not everybody has on stock.

About the names for PVC, well, more correct is uPVC, but in the US you hear often Vinyl instead, it all means all the same product.

About the prices, be aware that the frame is the smaller part, the glass can easily be the bigger part of the costs. I have clear glass in the back, and tinted reflective glass on the south side of the house. This reflects the solar heat almost completely, but costs about double of the clear glass. Then I use burglar resistant glass on a part of the ground floor windows, and guess what, that stuff is about three times as expensive as the clear glass. And then the bullet proof glass in ... no, just kidding, I did not take that, but it is available. So the bigger part of the costs was for the glass! Which is another reason not to compromise on the frame.

For me it is also important that the shop where I buy is somehow qualified. I mean really qualified, and not just picking up some skills on the job, as you find it here so often. Peter from WRVinyl is a "licensed fabricator of Thyssen Polymer GmbH", and not only since yesterday, and that does show.

And screens, yes, of course screen are available, and they are also PVC, that means easy to take off and easy to clean, just put them under the shower, and shower off any dust and dirt, and put back.

Cruzing posted the duro website already, Peter has one too, but just opened recently, and still very much under construction. However I have seen that his address and phone is there already: http://WRVinyl.com
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Postby runker » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:40 am

We have pvc windows in our house in the US. I used to think that when they were properly locked from inside that the only way to break into the house via the window would be to break the glass. Well, my son proved me wrong on the days he forgot his keys and had to break into the house via the window. From what I can tell the frames flexes and he is able pop the locks.
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pvc windows

Postby cruzing » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:45 am

runker wrote:We have pvc windows in our house in the US. I used to think that when they were properly locked from inside that the only way to break into the house via the window would be to break the glass. Well, my son proved me wrong on the days he forgot his keys and had to break into the house via the window. From what I can tell the frames flexes and he is able pop the locks.


I would say this is possible depending on the locking system and quality of the windows. The windows we brought from the states are not flexible at all and they way the locking system is made there is no way you could "pop" the lock. However, the windows (that cost alot here)that we bought over here have a very simple locking system AND the lock hooks up instead of down making it quite easy to pop the lock. Most of the time over here you will have extra security anyway. However, that won't help you much if it's not installed properly......meaning not just nailed in.......But that's a whole other topic.

Cruzing
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Re: pvc windows

Postby Attila » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:53 pm

cruzing wrote:
runker wrote:We have pvc windows in our house in the US. I used to think that when they were properly locked from inside that the only way to break into the house via the window would be to break the glass. Well, my son proved me wrong on the days he forgot his keys and had to break into the house via the window. From what I can tell the frames flexes and he is able pop the locks.


I would say this is possible depending on the locking system and quality of the windows. ...

Cruzing


Yes, Cruzing, exactly.

Window profiles do have often no steel in it, because it is not needed. A 2 mm version is obviously not as stiff as a 3 mm version, and then the profiles have chambers, which are influencing the stiffness dramatically.

Then there are locking systems which are just a joke, and others which do indeed lock. Peter has the regular locks (which I use) from Germany which are already impossible to open by "flexing the frame". Then there are high security systems available, such as the ones from "Winkhaus", no way to open them without breaking all.

It is as with many things here in this lovely country - the shops run by locals are focusing on what is used here, and has been used here for a long time, and that is not what someone from a Western country is used to. You asked for something better and the answer is "mai mee - does not exist". But then there are shops run by Farangs, or Thais which lived in Western countries, which import and offer the products used in the US and in Europe.

For me the locks which Peter from WRVinyl supplied as a standard, in combination with burglar resistant glass in some areas, has been good enough. However when I did see the "Winkhaus" systems he's offering, that was really impressive, and I would use such a system for a condo door, where the door would be the only entrance. But then, you better never loose the key :shock:

So it is with everything, there are cars like a Fiat/Peugeot and cars like a Volvo or Benz, and the same is true for PVC windows and locks. From what I've seen in my research, the Thyssen Polymer framed windows with the appropriate locks are the best you can get, be it here or back home.
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PVC windows

Postby cruzing » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:29 am

I like the doors and windows that Attila has in his house, very much. They work easily and look really good. I can't remember if he had to pay extra for the screens or if they came with, but the point is that they are available.

One thing that I like about the American door and window company though is that they have some different styles that you don't normally see anywhere here........added to the fact that the doors are standard U.S. thickness, making door knob installation easy.

However, on price comparison between the two companies they are probably about the same.......so it just depends on which ones you like and what you are willing to spend.

Cruzing
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upvc window door

Postby wolfgang » Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:35 am

upvc window door is very popular in German and Europe. But now also we move the plant to China, we have to accept. The upvc profile from China is same as from German. The best upvc window and door has 3 important rule as 1) material as profile, hardware, glass 2) fabricator 3) installation. So, choose all the best material is not enough. And, upvc profile is cost only 20% of all the window price.

Hope these will be some idea for our friends.
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upvc window door

Postby wolfgang » Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:48 am

Continue..

In case our freinds need more info, please find out from the company.
In Thailand have 3 import profile as

1) Veka import upvc profile from China and German. http://www.veka.com
2) Thyssym import upvc profile from Turkey and German. http://www.thyssym.com
3) Hevta import upvc profile from China and German. http://www.hevta.com
wolfgang
 

Postby whosyourdaddy » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:47 pm

Installed a uPVC double glazed, double pain window mainly to block out sound. Does an OK job. The window is a Thyssen brand and on paper is very good. My problem was with the company on sukumvit 101/1. The window was not installed properly, the bottom lock does not work properly and it the gap between the window and frame is too large. So due to Thai workers, they wrecked an expensive and good product. They have been back 2x to "fix" it but really dont do anything but realign it. Too bad as I would have outfitted the entire house with the product.

BTW costs were about B7500 sq meter.
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