All you need to know about Ready Mix (CPAC) vs Handmix

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Re: All you need to know about Ready Mix (CPAC) vs Handmix

Postby AussieBoy » Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:15 pm

Just finished a pour in Udon, paid 500bt for 1 m3 of concrete blend/ premixed gravel sand, 7 x bags 40kg 110bt total cost delivered 1300bt plus labour of 150 bt a m3 thats 1450bt m3 hand mix,
cpac delivered 1600bt

From experience 280kg cement per m3 of concrete blend with 160lt water will give you about 80mm slump from a slump test and 20+Mpa strength. the most common strength used in OZ for most homes, next strength is 25Mpa.
metric term Pascal 0.1kg over 1metre square, like PSI
20 Mpa = 20 Million Pascals over 1 m2
=2,000,000 kilos 1 m2
=2,000 tonne 1 m2
=200 KSC

The MAIN strenght of concrete comes down to 2 critical factors WATER CEMENT RATIO, dont make it to sloppy
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CPAC Price Update

Postby jazzman » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:58 am

26 November 2008
Standard steng for building houses. Rural amphur, Nong Bua lamphu province, Isaan

1,400 baht per cu.
How to build a $20,000 / £14,000 house and a $???? MOTEL Updated 21 March 09 - with BOQ and costs
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Re: All you need to know about Ready Mix (CPAC) vs Handmix

Postby tung » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:01 pm

Our builder said he can use 280 steng for the whole build on our 2 storey as there is only a few baht difference between 280 & 240 steng. Is this ok as there is nothing in the design that says what and where different strengths shoud be used?
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Re: All you need to know about Ready Mix (CPAC) vs Handmix

Postby jazzman » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:13 pm

Tung, you practically answered your own question nearly a month ago:
tung wrote:Prices obtained from CPAC today in Hua HIn for delivery up to 15 Kms

210 Steng - 1,445 baht

280 Steng - 1500 baht
The average Thai builder doesn't even know the steng index system :wink:
There is no harm in over-specing any engineering, but while the extra cost of the stronger concrete will not make much of a difference to you, the extra few bob (2,000 baht) will be a lot to the builder. He's very obviously on the make, and every little thing he can convince you to pay a 'little' more for will add up, and before you know it he will have made himself a cool 50,000 baht more on your build. Whether you can afford to play along with his tricks or not is immaterial, the principle is to teach these buggers that they can't get away with it.
Do be very careful with this guy or change before it's too late, because if he gets away with this argument he will know you are a soft touch and will be trying it on again, and again, and again...

If you want to now more about concrete, please read the FIRST page of this thread, and this topic: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=1027, the subject has been adequately covered.
BTW, standard cement and Portland cement is sold in 50 Kg bags, not 40.
How to build a $20,000 / £14,000 house and a $???? MOTEL Updated 21 March 09 - with BOQ and costs
Don't let this happen in YOUR house.
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Re: All you need to know about Ready Mix (CPAC) vs Handmix

Postby tung » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:45 am

Hi jazzman

His contract is for labour only. It's up to me and the missus what steng to buy as we will be paying not him. I just wanted to know if we can go for the 280 without any complications and you have answered that for me. Thanks for the clarification.
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Re: All you need to know about Ready Mix (CPAC) vs Handmix

Postby jazzman » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:51 pm

tung wrote:Hi jazzman
His contract is for labour only. It's up to me and the missus what steng to buy as we will be paying not him.

That may be true Tung, but he might be taking a backhander from the ready-mix concrete company by getting you to buy more, or a more expensive mix. I don't want to sound paranoid, but everything is possible with these people.
How to build a $20,000 / £14,000 house and a $???? MOTEL Updated 21 March 09 - with BOQ and costs
Don't let this happen in YOUR house.
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Re: All you need to know about Ready Mix (CPAC) vs Handmix

Postby geordie » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:08 pm

.[/quote]
That may be true Tung, but he might be taking a backhander from the ready-mix concrete company by getting you to buy more, or a more expensive mix. I don't want to sound paranoid, but everything is possible with these people.[/quote]

After being stuffed from behind with a 2mtr load not measuring up to 1 1/2 mtrs it was s blatant a short load i told the driver if it ocurred again or if i suspected it happening i would go back to his yard and witness the truck being weighed after that we inspected every load on arival and strangely enough the loads started to cover more ground than anticipated rather than less???
By the way had a good price of Bht1350 per cube i suspect this is a common practice as i have eperienced it in the uk also the problem being its dificult to prove and unless you have experience with estimating you can be wildley wrong anyway
But it is somthing to watch for and just by looking into the truck you will see a wear line at full load so easy it is to pick up on
also the drver will get a bit paranoid if someone tells him why you check even if you do not know what you are looking at
my comments may be wrong but never deliberately
If it aint broke, dont fix it
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Re: All you need to know about Ready Mix (CPAC) vs Handmix

Postby geordie » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:11 pm

DOUBL POSTED? REMOVED
my comments may be wrong but never deliberately
If it aint broke, dont fix it
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Re: All you need to know about Ready Mix (CPAC) vs Handmix

Postby jazzman » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:35 pm

Good tips Geordie - I got stiffed once a long time ago and it will never happen again.

The only sure way to go with ready-mixed concrete in Thailand is to order it from a genuine CPAC franchise. They all have an identical installation and all the loading and mixing is done automatically from a sophisticated computerised system. The delivery note is printed by the computer and shows all the ingredients and their weights/volumes. For a few extra baht, you can have a control block cast that will remain in their stores for 12 months.

CPAC depots are practically everywhere and the concrete will stand a good hour's ride. Unless of course you live where I do, and then you have no option but to go and watch the truck being loaded by the local concrete hack.

There are other firms, but they may be adding the ingredients by mechanical shovel and guesswork. Generally they are no cheaper. If everyone takes the trouble to read the dedicated concrete threads from the beginning, and Dozer's home pages, further discussion is unnecessary.

I will repeat this warning:
Not all CTH forum members can afford to be ripped off and laugh it off. CPAC depots are a franchise - like 7-Eleven shops, petrol stations, MacDonalds, and MisterMinute shoe & key repairers. If your builder can talk you into buying something more expensive than you need, he may well be getting as little as 50 baht per cu 'commission'. That may not seem much to us, but he's not just building your house, and all those little 50 bahts add up to a tidy sum. Some people may think it's a Kavalier Delikt, I think it is cheating.
How to build a $20,000 / £14,000 house and a $???? MOTEL Updated 21 March 09 - with BOQ and costs
Don't let this happen in YOUR house.
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