BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Amnat Charoen, Buriram, Chaiyaphum, Kalasin, Khon Kaen, Loei, Maha Sarakham, Mukdahan, Nakhon Phanom, Nakhon Ratchasima (Korat), Nongbua Lamphu, Nong Khai, Roi Et, Sakon Nakhon, Sisaket, Surin, Ubon Ratchathani, Udon Thani, Yasothon

Moderators: Sometimewoodworker, MGV12, BKKBILL

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby sidney » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:28 pm

And some more.
BUFFALO WITH BIRD.jpg
RAT AS LOCAL DELICACY.jpg
sidney
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:51 pm

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby sidney » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:14 pm

Sorry about forgetting the titles with the photographs. The last one may not be clear, but they are really rats; a local delicacy (it wasn't my meal, though!).

Mike Judd wrote:
Not a problem with that as long as the splice is right, off the top of my head I believe it's a min of 18 times the diameter of the Rebar but more will not hurt.It is easier for them to handle coming off of the solid concrete steel.


Sorry Mike, but me being a layman regarding building I don't understand the information. Can you a be a bit clearer, please?

Today went to check prices for CPAC (2,000 baht/m3) and a rebar cutting machine. The prices for the latter range from 2,000 (cheapest Chinese) to 6,500 baht for a real Makita (10,000 according to the builder, who wanted to buy that kind of stuff himself but give me the bill).

My wife insisted that no way we should buy stuff, because the builder was supposedly possessing everything for building and now it turned out to be not the case all the time. She felt that we should boot him out right away. I myself am still prepared to give him a chance, but was thinking about asking the engineer/designer of our plan to check all the builder's calculations before starting pouring the footings and posts, so that we can be rest assured that the most important structure is correct. After that it should be more or less plain sailing. I am still considering to delay the pouring of concrete by a week.

For the first time the builder started the build I've seen him eagerly do calculations today and helping out wherever he could. Before the crew went home the builder told my wife to order sand and gravel tomorrow and also rent a whacker plate, because he wanted to start pouring concrete for the bases of the footings. Never mind that we discussed yesterday that this would start on 20th December. Now my wife got angry, since he hadn't discussed it with us first and again at the end of the day instead. Besides the dug holes were still not correct in size, she thought, and the company was most likely closed tomorrow. Afterwards he left in a hurry.

We discussed the new problem, including her two brothers. They all told me the time had come to get rid of the guy and search for a manager/new builder, even if it would be for the footings and posts only, after which we could try to hire our own gangs to finish each stage of the build separately. According to them there were plenty of skilled and experienced people around who could pull it off.

We'll see what tomorrow brings.
sidney
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:51 pm

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby Mike Judd » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:09 am

Sorry there, What it means is when joining any steel rebar where it's not long enough to do the job on it's own, or with columns where it's not possible or convenient to have it continuant, it's quite acceptable to splice additional steel onto each other to the required length needed. As you can imaging with buildings with many floors the columns keep going but the steel rebar usually only go to just above the floor slab poured, then the next lot of rebar is spliced on. That's where the minimum 18 times the dia or more comes into it. So if you are using 16m.m. dia rebar X 18 = 288m.m.splice. I always give it a bit more. That's what your builder is on about, tying long lengths of steel with a bend at the bottom of the base right up into the air with out any concrete to hold it in place ,is possible but hard. Just using short lengths as starters is much easier to keep in the exact place that you want your columns to be. Hope that helps and not too long winded, but no problem.
Mike Judd
 
Posts: 1403
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:31 am
Location: Church Point Sydney N.S.W. Australia. Khon Kaen

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:08 am

Sidney,
Here's photo so you can see how it should be joined:
Attachments
Joining%20rebar%20columns.jpg
How rebar should be joined:
User avatar
Roger Ramjet
 
Posts: 5250
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby sidney » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:24 am

AAARGH...It took half an hour to get this page loaded!!!

Mike Judd wrote:
Sorry there, What it means is when joining any steel rebar where it's not long enough to do the job on it's own, or with columns where it's not possible or convenient to have it continuant, it's quite acceptable to splice additional steel onto each other to the required length needed. As you can imaging with buildings with many floors the columns keep going but the steel rebar usually only go to just above the floor slab poured, then the next lot of rebar is spliced on. That's where the minimum 18 times the dia or more comes into it. So if you are using 16m.m. dia rebar X 18 = 288m.m.splice. I always give it a bit more. That's what your builder is on about, tying long lengths of steel with a bend at the bottom of the base right up into the air with out any concrete to hold it in place ,is possible but hard. Just using short lengths as starters is much easier to keep in the exact place that you want your columns to be. Hope that helps and not too long winded, but no problem.


No worries there. I rather have it long winded than anything else, because it makes a lot of sense and now I understand it together with Roger Ramjet's photograph. So many thanks for both of you. I'm very grateful with all the support.

My wife decided that the builder will be given today to finish the holes for the footings. She's just considering a very diplomatic Thai way to tell him that it's the end for him without laying blame.

She also thinks it better not to rush ourselves into things and if that means we can't get the build completed in 4 months, so be it.

She already did a bit of homework and thought it best to hire a foreman by the week only and specific skilled and experienced workers by the day and if we aren't satisfied it's very easy to have them leave. Besides she thought to have the foreman's work overseen by a manager/builder for a specific period of time only (for the most important parts, like the structural work). For us nothing would change, because we would be on site all the time to still keep an eye on things.
sidney
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:51 pm

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby sidney » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:57 pm

Today a hole was dug for the septic tank. At between 2 and 2.50 m depth they hit water. The builder was aiming for a 4-5 m deep hole. But I think that is not a good plan, because in the rainseason the water level will be at 1 m below the groundsurface, which would mean that the wastage would spread around with all the bad smellsas a result.

When thinking about that I had a closer look at Roger Ramjet's footings (photographs). They looked quite a bit smaller (supporting two floors) than mine, which are 1,20 x 1,20 m with a depth of 1 m.

QUESTION:Keeping that in mind and that the workers hit the water at the mentioned depth could the footings' weight create problems later when the water level would be much higher, perhaps touching the footings' base? The landfill is 50-60 cms high and the holes were dug in the original ground by another 40-50 cms (all the footings' holes are dry; in other words they didn't hit any water).

Breezer blocks will be used for the footings as formwork to pour the concrete in and will remain where they are. The footings are 1,20 x 1,20 m (plan's spec).
QUESTION: Should the breezerblocks be included in the 1,20 x 1,20 m size or be counted as an extra, so that the total footing size would be around 1,34 x 1,34 m?
sidney
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:51 pm

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby sidney » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:20 pm

Another photograph
pvc cover for rebar.jpg
PVC COVER FOR REBAR


Tried to sort out the slow internet connection today. To no avail, even with a SIM-card of another company. In Khukhan there is wifi, not where we live. I feel like living in a Third World country. Perhaps no other choice but to travel 4-5 km to Khukhan and just sit there somewhere for wifi when needed.
sidney
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:51 pm

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:10 pm

Sidney,
sidney wrote:When thinking about that I had a closer look at Roger Ramjet's footings (photographs). They looked quite a bit smaller (supporting two floors) than mine, which are 1,20 x 1,20 m with a depth of 1 m.

I know from experience that the mind goes into overload when building, so: What you have forgotten is my house sits on 51 bore piles, not just the footings, some that sit over 3 piles. Some of those piles are over 32 metres deep. They are not pad footings, the ground around Ban Bua Thong is basically just mud for the first 20 metres so the piles support the building, the footings just "assist" to carry the load.
User avatar
Roger Ramjet
 
Posts: 5250
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:13 pm

Sidney,
In regards to your other question, breeze blocks can support little weight, so they are not part of the footings.
User avatar
Roger Ramjet
 
Posts: 5250
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby sidney » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:50 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:
Sidney,
In regards to your other question, breeze blocks can support little weight, so they are not part of the footings.


Thanks again Roger, I understand. I had forgotten about your borepiles indeed.

Sorry, but the question remains if the rising ground waterlevel would have any impact on the stability of the footings?

Last night we told the builder that it had been his last day on site. He was extremely unhappy about it and would keep us to the contract, never mind the problems we had encountered since day one and his lack of communication.

Yesterday was the second day in a row he actually did some real work himself instead of relying on me to do his calculations and sort things out. He told us he would come today regardless. It transpired that the builder hadn't paid his crew monies due and they were unhappy about it. We may somehow have to make an arrangement for that. We'll see. My wife has been working behind the scenes to try to sort things out.
sidney
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:51 pm

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby sidney » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:37 pm

Tuesday evening we had the builder over to sort out our problems. My wife did the talking. In the end he made the typical Thai wai and apologized (for what it is worth) for having caused us trouble. I must admit he has guts though, because right after that his salesmen's instinct took over again by declaring he was ready to continue the job. However, my wife informed him that she, as well as I, didn't see a base to continue. There is still a chance that he will try later on to get some money out of us. We'll wait and see.

Last night we consulted the local soothsayer. The outcome: our decision to boot out the builder was the right one and we should expect no problems with a new builder. The first and most important post should be erected on 26th December and the rest should follow next month. Finally we should hold a ceremony tomorrow for the spirits to soothe their agony.

Today it turned out that the soothsayer had made a mistake with the month for erecting the first post. Now it is supposed to be 26th January. Initially I was a bit peeved off. But after pondering it I believed it would give us some relief. And extra time for arranging a new builder with all the materials available. But also ensuring to get a skilled and independent person to do a proper check beforehand and carry out the plumbing job for all posts if need be. Last, but not least I could do a quick visa run and arrange a new passport for my daughter at the embassy in Bangkok.
sidney
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:51 pm

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:10 pm

Sidney,
Very wise decisions going on there about stepping back and regrouping. I wish I had after the floods, it wouldn't have cost me so much in bad mistakes.
Look forward to the restart in January.
User avatar
Roger Ramjet
 
Posts: 5250
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby BKKBILL » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:46 pm

As Yoda stated:

"Much to learn you still have."

I'm looking forward to your build and hope now it goes to plan.
It's not who you know, it's whom you know.
User avatar
BKKBILL
 
Posts: 2941
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: Mae Taeng, Chiang Mai

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby Makmak456 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:21 am

sidney wrote:Tuesday evening we had the builder over to sort out our problems. My wife did the talking. In the end he made the typical Thai wai and apologized (for what it is worth) for having caused us trouble. I must admit he has guts though, because right after that his salesmen's instinct took over again by declaring he was ready to continue the job. However, my wife informed him that she, as well as I, didn't see a base to continue. There is still a chance that he will try later on to get some money out of us. We'll wait and see.

Last night we consulted the local soothsayer. The outcome: our decision to boot out the builder was the right one and we should expect no problems with a new builder. The first and most important post should be erected on 26th December and the rest should follow next month. Finally we should hold a ceremony tomorrow for the spirits to soothe their agony.

Today it turned out that the soothsayer had made a mistake with the month for erecting the first post. Now it is supposed to be 26th January. Initially I was a bit peeved off. But after pondering it I believed it would give us some relief. And extra time for arranging a new builder with all the materials available. But also ensuring to get a skilled and independent person to do a proper check beforehand and carry out the plumbing job for all posts if need be. Last, but not least I could do a quick visa run and arrange a new passport for my daughter at the embassy in Bangkok.


Consulting with the local head monk, is a good idea, along with the soothsayer. It can go a long way to a smooth build.
We consulted a head monk, along with a clarevoyant, for start days etc...
not sure how much it helped but everyone was very happy that the "falang" knew enough to do this step before building.....
Just my experience, building in LOS
Mark
Makmak456
 
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 5:38 pm

Re: BUILDING IN KHUKAN/SISAKET

Postby sidney » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:30 am

b]MakMak456 wrote: [/b]
Consulting with the local head monk, is a good idea, along with the soothsayer. It can go a long way to a smooth build.


We did consult a well known soothsayer prior to the build, who stipulated 20, 26 and 27 December were auspicious dates to start building. Before that, I'm quite sure my wife consulted monks to get advice. The second soothsayer, consulted after we had problems with the builder, only confirmed the first one's dates, only the month was different. Even now she wants to consult a welknown monk before starting the build again (I wouldn't have it any other way). I respect the way they go about things here as it's part of their culture. Even though it, for us westerners, may be impractical in the planning.

I could have prevented the problems myself if I would have followed my gut feeling, because right after signing the contract I felt tearing it up already.

Yesterday the builder picked up all his stuff and began talking about money again. Eventually he buggered off with a couple of thousand baht. His crew apparently still hasn't been paid by him yet and since I doubt that he will we may have to hammer out a deal with them as well, but hen without interference with the builder. Eventually it may give this farang the much needed "face" and goodwill.

Right now I'm alone in Sisaket to get into the right frame of mind to continue.
In a way I'm glad he tried to take us to the cleaners at this early stage, otherwise we would have encountered much more grief. It's just a pity that often this country revolves around money only instead of integrity.
sidney
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:51 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Isaan provinces

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest