LED down lights that can be dimmed?

Information on electric installation and anything related to electric.
Design, materials, sources & prices, for separate topics on:
- Wiring diagrams, regulations and standards
- materials, installation, connection.
- sources & prices
- hazards and trouble shooting
Before you post any questions, download Itchy's tutorials and search for an answer there.

Moderators: Sometimewoodworker, MGV12, BKKBILL, pattayapope, Attila

Re: LED down lights that can be dimmed?

Postby Andyfteeze » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:54 am

All the ones you posted still require a cut out in the ceiling. My ideal panel would sit flat on the ceiling. They dont make it yet, :? The nearest is the round oyster shell type. cutting holes in the ceiling is a relic from halogen down lights era, lol. Looking back it seemed a good idea at the time.
Andyfteeze
 
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:29 pm

Re: LED down lights that can be dimmed?

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:42 am

Andyfteeze wrote:All the ones you posted still require a cut out in the ceiling. My ideal panel would sit flat on the ceiling. They dont make it yet, :? The nearest is the round oyster shell type. cutting holes in the ceiling is a relic from halogen down lights era, lol. Looking back it seemed a good idea at the time.

Since even LED's are not 100% efficienct so need heat sinks, a panel that was completely flat to the ceiling wouldn't be able to dissipate the waste heat so you need a new technology for your light. All my light fittings have heat sinks on the back and some get to hot to touch easily. Holes in the ceiling are not really a relic of the halogen downlighting era
IMG_0464.JPG


However if you merely mean an LED fitting that is low profile surface mount then they are easily available, there are even a few in Thailand.
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1805
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: LED down lights that can be dimmed?

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:19 am

1FA1E076-C841-413C-84B4-B53A73689ADB-12547-00001FE58AC00CE4_tmp.jpeg
An example of a surface mount LED ceiling light

7BC3AABC-476B-4CC5-B3CE-622B724A778F-12605-00001FE6DE59FEEA_tmp.jpeg

8E5657E0-8F82-4D44-9B96-8F0977BF44E6-12605-00001FE6C837D035_tmp.jpeg
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1805
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: LED down lights that can be dimmed?

Postby Andyfteeze » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:07 pm

I beg to differ, before downlights we had battens. 1 100w light batten was replaced by 4 50w halogen down lights. It was only later when we started to think about insulation and efficiency that their use had a useby date.
Now from a technical aspect, thoses LED down lights have such big heatsinks, i wonder where the efficiency is coming from if so much heat needs to be dissipated. 50w halogens put out about 700lumens. If 5-10w led lights put out this much light too, is the power going directly to heating the heatsink? ( note, thats a joke)
I have seen the flatish oyster ones at Global for 400bt each. They are about 1" high and they dont have heatsinks. The output is probably around 500lumens, i am guessing a bit, they are ok but slightly lower in light output. I dont know if they are dimmable.
Andyfteeze
 
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:29 pm

Re: LED down lights that can be dimmed?

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:02 pm

Andyfteeze wrote:I beg to differ, before downlights we had battens. 1 100w light batten was replaced by 4 50w halogen down lights. It was only later when we started to think about insulation and efficiency that their use had a useby date.
Now from a technical aspect, thoses LED down lights have such big heatsinks, i wonder where the efficiency is coming from if so much heat needs to be dissipated. 50w halogens put out about 700lumens. If 5-10w led lights put out this much light too, is the power going directly to heating the heatsink? ( note, thats a joke)
I have seen the flatish oyster ones at Global for 400bt each. They are about 1" high and they dont have heatsinks. The output is probably around 500lumens, i am guessing a bit, they are ok but slightly lower in light output. I dont know if they are dimmable.

In my local Global there were no dimmable LED's of any style apart from bulbs, it was only HomePro that had any at all, and they only had 4. :(
At 500 lumen the one you talk about would probably be a 6 watt unit.
You can certainly have units with no heat sink, but unless the power supply is being under run and the LED's as well the heat build up will reduce the life span by anything up to 20 times shorter than it should be. Heat is the major enemy of longevity with LED's.

The large heat sinks in those lights should ensure that they run cool and so get somewhere close to the designed life, two of them are 720 lumen units

I have some lights with smaller, less efficient heat sinks but they are all dimmable ones so will usually be under run so the life expectancy should not be reduced by much.

FWIW we will be using a variety of down lights, at the moment the maximum output per fitting is ranging from 260 to 1,900 lumen almost all of them are dimmable either with a triac or their own RF programmable remote depending on the unit.

I don't understand what you mean by a light batten, it's a term that is new to me, is it an Australian term?
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1805
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: LED down lights that can be dimmed?

Postby Andyfteeze » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:22 pm

Light batten.jpg
Light batten.jpg (1.4 KiB) Viewed 110 times


They were/are bayonet
style mainly but screw types are just as abundant.
Andyfteeze
 
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:29 pm

Re: LED down lights that can be dimmed?

Postby rchapstick » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:39 am

I got a dimmer module form Eco-LED in Jomtien, works with non-dimable lights. Works fine.
rchapstick
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:22 am

Re: LED down lights that can be dimmed?

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:17 am

rchapstick wrote:I got a dimmer module form Eco-LED in Jomtien, works with non-dimable lights. Works fine.


There are various kinds of power supply to led lights, various kinds of dimmer, and various styles of led light.

So at the moment your information is missing quite a few vital bits to know what lights it will work with.

So it is probably better to say that the dimmer module the supply works well with the lights you have. As far as I can work out there is no dimming solution that is universal.

I would be very happy to find I'm wrong.

For example a triac dimmer (phase-controlled dimmer) will not do anything if you have a switched mode power supply.

There are literally thousands of different LED driver solutions today. Most are either DC-DC boost, buck or line isolated AC-DC, constant current, (fixed, or dimmable). power Factor Corrected (PFC) on AC (or not)
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1805
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Previous

Return to electric

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest