Led down lights which wattage ?

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Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby iammike » Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:09 pm

I don't know if this is right place for it, if not, please move it.

What do you guys think is the right wattage for LED down lights?

Was personally thinking 7 watts but after having a discussion about this it's not that obvious.

For example kitchen, you need good and bright lights same as your Bathroom.

What do you guyz think ?

And other questions how many down lights would you install in

- bedroom (was thinking 4, one in each corner)
- kitchen (was thinking 6, one in each corner and 2'in the middle)
- bathroom (4 in each corner and 2 in the middle, but with the option to only turn on the middle 2 or all 6)
- living room ( same as kitchen)


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Re: Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby iammike » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:27 pm

I think this finally comes down to personal preference, but I just wanna hear your opinions.

Thanks.


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Re: Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby MGV12 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:35 pm

iammike wrote:I think this finally comes down to personal preference, but I just wanna hear your opinions.

Thanks.


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Indeed it does Mike. Not only is lighting a personal choice but also comparing different types of lighting is in fact a bit of a black art [even though many websites will claim otherwise] and watts mean nothing in making the comparison. Add to this the shape of the room, the ambient lighting from glazed areas, the colour of walls and the soft furnishings ... all of which have a different affect of light absorption/reflection. Then we get to the way light is perceived by different people ............................

Decide where you want the focal points of lighting in a room, especially the kitchen ... ceiling lamps/wall lamps/table and standing lamps ... and each light spread. Then you get to 12V or 240V. Then you get to what fitting type ... E27/E14/GU10/MR16. Thailand still have Incandescents but has been pushing CFL's .... therefore LED were very hard to find ... last year LEDs started creeping in with a mixture of MR16 [mostly but not all 12V] and GU10 [240V] mostly at high prices but recently more and more have been arriving in the big stores in E27 screw-type and some at more reasonable prices. Look on the box for the Lumens ... as against the Watts ... as they are more meaningful of the actual light output. All LEDs are not equal when it comes to Lumen output per Watt ... some websites may say that a wWatt LED is the same as a xWatt Halogen or yWatt CFL or zWatt Incandescent but that rarely works out in practice. If all that makes sense it's still down to experimentation due to the above factors. If you want it right it really is a suck it and see process.

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Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby iammike » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:57 pm

Thanks.

What you are saying makes a lot of sense, but makes it also a lot more difficult;)

How can you try this out ? Waiting for your gypsum ceiling goes in a buy 6 led lights (of lets say 7 watts) stick them to the ceiling and see how it looks ? If you not like it, or it's not enough light, just try again with 9 watts and so on ;)

The disadvantage of the LED's we are considering is that they're the "builtin" ones. What I mean by that is that the fixture and the "bulb" are one piece so you can't change the bulb.

Thinking more about this, I think we should rethink this and maybe go for the "standard" down lights where you can change the bulbs and you can easily experiment with different LED wattage / Lumens.

Something like this

Image

Instead of this

Image

Thanks a lot, your post has got me thinking (and that's a good thing)

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Re: Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:38 am

A point to consider is that instead of trying to get the lighting exactly right, if you install more than you think you want on different circuits you can change the lighting just by switching.
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Re: Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby iammike » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:53 am

Thanks SWW.

Yep that's already what I will be doing in the Bathroom. One switch (for at night when drouzy and just wanna pee) that will just turn on 2 lights and another switch that will turn on all 6 lights.

But that is a good idea also for the kitchen and living room. We will not have those "big round lights" what your normally see in the middle of the ceiling in every room but will only have them in the living and kitchen.


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Re: Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby schuimpge » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:30 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:A point to consider is that instead of trying to get the lighting exactly right, if you install more than you think you want on different circuits you can change the lighting just by switching.


Yep, fully right I think. Right wattage? I'd say 3w per light. Have the same in my townhouse. 5 mezzanine floors with a total of 250 watt in 3w LEDs. It's bright like Times Square at New Year's Eve 12am fireworks with everything on.
More lights, lower wattage per light..
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Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby iammike » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:15 am

Thanks.

We now have around 40 down lights planned, but will buy approx 50 so we can add more if needed.

Have already bought a couple of 7 watts will see how that looks and will change to a lower / higher wattage if needed.

Another question.

When going shopping for Down Lights are there special things to look for when you want to use them with LED's or is only the base (E27) of importance?

Thanks


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Re: Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:58 am

iammike wrote:Thanks.

We now have around 40 down lights planned, but will buy approx 50 so we can add more if needed.

Have already bought a couple of 7 watts will see how that looks and will change to a lower / higher wattage if needed.

Another question.

When going shopping for Down Lights are there special things to look for when you want to use them with LED's or is only the base (E27) of importance?

Thanks


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It won't help your install but E27 is not the only connection for down lights there is the much smaller MR11 probably better for under, or in, cabinet lights and in low voltage systems.
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Re: Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby iammike » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:53 pm

Thanks.

Oke, so there are no other precautions (when going shopping) then checking if the base is correct and most importantly if the misses likes the colour :)


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Re: Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby MGV12 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:42 pm

iammike wrote:Thanks.

Oke, so there are no other precautions (when going shopping) then checking if the base is correct and most importantly if the misses likes the colour :)


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'Warm white' unless there is a specific need for 'cool white' or 'daylight' as LED's can otherwise feel a bit sterile ... the old incandescents had more natural warmth; a bit like valve audio amplifiers. http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php

If you want to be able to dim then look out for the 'dimmable' type ... and check what type of dimmer you will require as those for other types of bulb may not work properly.

Also if you are going to use 12V the correct type of step-down will extend bulb life and remove the possibility of flicker.

Have fun :)

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Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby iammike » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:37 pm

MGV12 wrote:
If you want to be able to dim then look out for the 'dimmable' type ... and check what type of dimmer you will require as those for other types of bulb may not work properly.


Have fun :)


Hi,

Thanks again, why is that that most LED's I looked at don't work with a dimmer ? (This out of pure interest, as I am not going to install Dimmers).

The other thing is I am looking for LED's for my outdoor (enclosed) fixtures and on all of the packages (I have seen) it says - Not for use with enclosed fixtures, so up till now I haven't found one that I can use outdoors yet. Normal ones will work, but what I have read is that their lifetime is dramatically reduced if you use them in Enclosed Fixtures :(


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Re: Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby fredlk » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:56 pm

iammike wrote: I haven't found one that I can use outdoors yet. Normal ones will work, but what I have read is that their lifetime is dramatically reduced if you use them in Enclosed Fixtures

I have enclosed fixtures and the only ones I found that don't heat up are the ones I use everywhere, 1.5 W. Somewhere in another topic there's a photo of them. They have been in these fixtures for almost 4 years now and on every night and only 2 have failed so far.
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Re: Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby Andyfteeze » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:14 am

Most led lights don't work with a dimmer because they are in reality many leds tied together. They work best at around 20ma current EACH. So a voltage regulator is between mains supply and the LEDs. Its only function is to keep the voltage/current constant to the LEDs. altering the input voltage has no effect between the working range of the regulator. so simple voltage dimmers will have no effect.

As I have stated elsewhere, it is HIGHLY MISLEADING to buy LED lighting on watts ratings. If you think GU10/12 down light is equivalent to a normal halogen 50w down light, you will be disappointed. Its about half the lighting you are expecting. If there are no lumens figures quoted, move on or sight test the light.
The only ones I PERSONALLY liked were bigger and ironically, rated at 30w. About twice as efficient as halogen.
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Re: Led down lights which wattage ?

Postby MGV12 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:51 am

Andyfteeze wrote:Most led lights don't work with a dimmer because they are in reality many leds tied together. They work best at around 20ma current EACH. So a voltage regulator is between mains supply and the LEDs. Its only function is to keep the voltage/current constant to the LEDs. altering the input voltage has no effect between the working range of the regulator. so simple voltage dimmers will have no effect.

As I have stated elsewhere, it is HIGHLY MISLEADING to buy LED lighting on watts ratings. If you think GU10/12 down light is equivalent to a normal halogen 50w down light, you will be disappointed. Its about half the lighting you are expecting. If there are no lumens figures quoted, move on or sight test the light.
The only ones I PERSONALLY liked were bigger and ironically, rated at 30w. About twice as efficient as halogen.


Back again and as arrogant as before. Nothing new in this post [nor those on your recent posts on other threads] to really help the op's ... in fact you are simply adding another level of confusion. Your arrogance is so well portrayed with this quote "The only ones I PERSONALLY liked" ... shouting about it doesn't make the message more effective; in fact it weakens it. Suggest you stop 'preaching' and simply offer advice to questions based on the [perceived] experience level of the op.

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