Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

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Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby iammike » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:39 am

Hi,

I am looking for a solution that incorporates both RCBO and Surge Protection from one Brand.

I know for RCBO I can choose a Safe-T-Cut but id rather have a solution for both protections from one brand which will fit in my CU.

ABB has a solution, but the problem is that they only have a Combined RCBO / Main Breaker of 40 amps, and my Max. Load prediction is around 45 amps.

CKY also has one but their boxes only have 10 slots, plus the MOV is only 10-20kA.

Details

I am on 15/45 Single Phase,
RCBO preferable max 30 mA
Surge Protector min 40kA


Thanks in advance to any pointers



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Re: Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:31 am

iammike wrote:I know for RCBO I can choose a Safe-T-Cut but id rather have a solution for both protections from one brand which will fit in my CU.

iammike,
I have three Sate-T-Cut boards that all come in through the main breaker (Mitsubishi 50 amp), they then go out to each individual board from that breaker. All you would have to do is reduce the main breaker size to say 45 amps or even 40 amps.
I have never had the mains breaker trip, but have had individual trips and a main trip on the Safe-T-Cut boards. I am running a 45/100 single phase meter.
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Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby iammike » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:53 am

RR, thanks, but how would surge protection fit into this, Wouldn't a surge (potentially) destroy the Safe-t-cut ? I a,m honestly more worried about surges then I am about RCBO protection, but id rather have them both.

And if I reduce my Main breaker to 40amps Won't I get a lot of trips as my Max predicted load is around 45amps?

Ps: I have talked to my Electrician and he has never heard of surge protection and he thought that a safe-t-cut would take care of that :( (not easy to find a good electrician where I live)


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Last edited by iammike on Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby iammike » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:56 am

Another question, what about using the Safe-t-cut (Nano S 50 amps) as main incomer or is that a stupid thought? And what would PEA think of that ?


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Re: Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:26 pm

iammike wrote:but how would surge protection fit into this, Wouldn't a surge (potentially) destroy the Safe-t-cut ?

Your maximum input is 45 amps (15/45) so you want the electricity to cut itself off at 45 amps. The meter is rated as 15 minimum 45 maximum to it will regulate the flow of electricity to the maximum peak of 45 and then automatically cut itself off when the peak is reached. In other words it won't allow more than 45 amps through it, so when you reach the maximum 45 that's where it will stay. If you want it to cutout before then instal a 40 amp cut-off switch. if you want it go to the maximum then a 45 amp cutoff switch (which means you need a larger meter).
The meter should not allow more than 45 amps through at any one time, but if it does then you need a 45 or less cutout switch.
Your Safe-T-Cut board will not be affected as the surge will not get to it. It depends on what your appliances are rated at where on the board they are installed but an electrician will know, or should. The breakers in the Safe-T-Cut board don't get affected by electricity coming in, they get affected by what the different appliances use internally. If the maximum rating for an appliance goes over the rating on the breaker in the board, it will automatically trip the breaker in the board.
Surges come from PEA through your power lines, if you have a surge protector installed that's where they stop. Meters are notoriously slow at cutting out the flow of electricity especially when there is a lightening strike, a surge protector is designed to do it instantaneously before it causes damage to the appliances.
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Re: Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby iammike » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:49 pm

Hi RR.

Thanks, I already (before we started building) talked to the PEA in my area.

They said max available to me is 15/45 Single Phase, and when I asked which amps main breaker would they accept when connecting the final meter and I gave them the choice of 40,50 and 63, they said both the 40'and 50 would be acceptable but most certainly NOT the 63amps. According to them the 50A Wouldn't harm the meter. But I will go for the 45a and just be careful with my electric usage. The main one I have to be careful with will be the 6000watt Water Heater in the Master Bathroom.


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Re: Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:41 pm

iammike wrote:According to them the 50A Wouldn't harm the meter.

I wouldn't worry about their meter, that's their worry, it's what the meter lets through to your mains board you should worry about, which is why you put the cut out switch before the mains board to protect your board and the appliances it runs.
A 6,000 watt water heater in this day and age is quite rare. My 100 litre hot water heater (Stiebel Eltron) doesn't even draw half of that, but my gaming computer does draw 4,000 watts when it first starts. Neither have ever tripped the Safe-T-Cut board.
I have never heard of a 15/45 meter ever being overloaded to the extent it stops any appliance running. Even electric stoves and ovens, along with the other big drawers have never managed to shut down a house, even a big house with lots of air conditioners all running along with the other big drawers. Most Thais have a 5/15 meter and never have problems with it, even with their instant hot water systems and air conditioners running. You can buy the 45 amp cut out switches at any good electrical outlet.
I had a real electrician wire my house and he dealt direct with a Mum and Pop run electrical shop that sold everything..... but it was all strictly cash.
Good luck.
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Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby iammike » Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:00 pm

My water heater is a Stiebel Eltron DHM6 for sale at all major shops here in Thailand, but I am thinking of going solar on this one (used for Master Bathroom only)

I have been to Mum and Pop shops together with my electrician (and other shops in matter a fact) but for example they didn't even have Surge Protectors but we bought other stuff there (like all my outdoor lights incl LED and they where the only place that carries 16mm NYY) and yes they are cash only, I don't know why you mention that ?

But I have to agree, I have to find a better electrician, but where I live it's not that easy, but I have (hopefully) a promising lead. Thanks.

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Re: Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:16 pm

iammike wrote:yes they are cash only, I don't know why you mention that ?

I mentioned it because I ordered over 60,000 baht's worth of copper cable, earth rods, connectors and when I handed over my Visa Card I got a blank stare and had to go to the bank and withdraw the amount in cash. I just wanted to spare you the withering looks I got and the dumb farang comments after I left.
I was later told that they didn't have a Visa machine because they fundged on their tax..... you can't trace cash, especially when you lose that receipt book each week, but you can trace Visa Card receipts.
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Re: Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby canopy » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:59 am

Surprised d-square/Schneider hasn't been mentioned. I use their MOV and RCBO's and they are fine. Might be worth a check.

BTW a 63A MCB is the standard for a 14/45 meter. A non-Thai electrician can explain as to why.
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Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby iammike » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:44 am

Thanks Canopy.

I will most certainly check them out. Where did you buy them ? The RCBO can be easily found but not the MOVS.

@RR.

I have never thought of that that it had to do with tax,but it doesn't surprise me one bit.

I normally pay everything in cash, we have to regularly go to our bank and withdraw cash (but as our bank accounts are in another province, we also have to pay a fee to withdraw cash) fortunately the bigger stores accept cards.

I love those Mum and Pops stores, if you need anything special it can usually be found there and they (can be) cheaper then big stores.

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Re: Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:47 am

iammike wrote:Thanks Canopy.

I will most certainly check them out. Where did you buy them ? The RCBO can be easily found but not the MOVS.

@RR.

I have never thought of that that it had to do with tax,but it doesn't surprise me one bit.

I normally pay everything in cash, we have to regularly go to our bank and withdraw cash (but as our bank accounts are in another province, we also have to pay a fee to withdraw cash) fortunately the bigger stores accept cards.

Why not open local accounts? Then use online banking to transfere FOC and withdraw FOC. We do that with Bangkok and Udon.
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Re: Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby iammike » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:25 am

Thanks SWW.

I don't have local accounts yet, as the banks I asked refused to open an account for a foreigner :( . So at the moment I am withdrawing cash from my account in Chonburi and when I have more time (build settles down) go and hunt for a local bank account. Please note the fee I have to pay to withdraw 200.000 THB is 22x THB so it's not major.


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Re: Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby canopy » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:35 pm

d-square is as common as the others in my experience. I see them at both electrical shops and the big home improvement outlets.
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Re: Solution for both RCBO and Surge Protection

Postby iammike » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:48 pm

canopy wrote:d-square is as common as the others in my experience. I see them at both electrical shops and the big home improvement outlets.


RCBO's yes but MOV's no, I have been looking for them in around 5-6 shops (Mum and Pop and the Big name stores) and nothing to be found. The funniest reply I got in one of those major stores was, you don't need separate Surge Protectors as Safe-T-cut will take care of that 5555555


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