Electricity charges - A WARNING

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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby schuimpge » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:45 am

The interesting thing I found is: everyone always tells you to put a 30A breaker for each separate aircon (head + compressor).
Did not measure on the head-unit, which I guess is fairly light on the Amps, but the compressor I have on the Master Bed (18000Btu) takes only 6.5 to 7A when it kicks in!
Not sure if that will increase when it gets more hot, have to wait and see for that.

Just very surprised on that. 30A breaker for less than 10A peak-load.
I'm guessing it's a left over from the old days, but anybody have a better explanation for that?

Cheers,
Luc
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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby Roger Ramjet » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:17 pm

schuimpge wrote:Just very surprised on that. 30A breaker for less than 10A peak-load.
I'm guessing it's a left over from the old days, but anybody have a better explanation for that?

Luc,
I think if you look at a number of relatively new appliances, hot water heaters, air cons, refrigerator/freezer, you'll find that they do not drag as much power as they used to. The wiring on my hot water system is the same as you would find on your lighting system 1mm. The wiring for better quality air cons is also only 1.5 mm as they all have sequencial solonoids installed that have little drag at start-up.
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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby schuimpge » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:26 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:
schuimpge wrote:Just very surprised on that. 30A breaker for less than 10A peak-load.
I'm guessing it's a left over from the old days, but anybody have a better explanation for that?

Luc,
I think if you look at a number of relatively new appliances, hot water heaters, air cons, refrigerator/freezer, you'll find that they do not drag as much power as they used to. The wiring on my hot water system is the same as you would find on your lighting system 1mm. The wiring for better quality air cons is also only 1.5 mm as they all have sequencial solonoids installed that have little drag at start-up.


RR, fully understand and agree, but my question is: Why still install that 30A breaker? I guess it's old-habits-don't-die kind of issue, but anybody has a reason for it?

Cheers,
Luc
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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby sjeng » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:49 pm

I just took a look at the installation guide from my aircon (samsung)
they recommend a 20 or 30 amp breacker depends on the type.
They might be more educated on electricity then I am so I did follow there advice and installed a 30 amp also.
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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby schuimpge » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:47 am

sjeng wrote:I just took a look at the installation guide from my aircon (samsung)
they recommend a 20 or 30 amp breacker depends on the type.
They might be more educated on electricity then I am so I did follow there advice and installed a 30 amp also.


Oh sure mine are the same, 30A breakers..
Just trying to figure why with a 6-7A surge only during power-up
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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby MGV12 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:31 pm

In most of the countries our members came from they wouldn't need to be deciding on what type or rating of protection should be installed in electric circuits.
Just call in a qualified electrician and leave it to them ... they would be certified and insured ... no worries.

Here in LOS it can be a VERY different situation. Qualified? Certified? Insured? ... you'll be lucky!

If you want your new house to be safe ... goes without saying really ... you would be well-advised to do a little research. Before you let a 'Chang' start running various colours of various gauges of wiring to provide sparks [sometimes literally!] to your expensive new appliances and fittings. 'Standards' and 'Codes' are an exception here rather than the rule; of law. Oh and don't forget to insist that you want an effective ground/earth ... a three-wire installation. In most of our countries 'twin & earth' are commonplace ... here you will search long and hard to find all three in one sheath. The 'norm' is to run individual cables of different colours and often those colours will vary around the house ... depending often on simply what's to hand!!!

I am not a qualified electrician but I have done enough in my home country to realise that there seem to be few houses here that have safe, well-balanced and well-protected circuitry. On this thread alone there are questions about what rating of circuit breaker you should have installed for a particular appliance ... homeowners shouldn't need to be deciding such things!

For those who are interested:

http://www.industry.usa.siemens.com/ser ... eakers.pdf

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby schuimpge » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:29 am

MGV12, I hear you...ripped out all electric in both Townhouses and they where an absolute nightmare.
Re-installation still required all of my attention to make sure they did it all according to reasonable safety standards.
The 1st house has "AAA-Class" standards in the Thai terms for electricity...lol.
Second house will be done in the coming weeks.

My question on the breakers just because it surprised me how little Amps the compressor pulls.
But for the few hundred baht, I'm the last one to save on that for the second house.

Cheers,
Luc
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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby schuimpge » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:32 am

Shastadad wrote:
Thanks :D , one more question. Were you able to buy it here or did you have to import from Oz or England ?

I can only get 110-120V ones in the US !


Was in Homepro yesterday. Thought of this and checked.. The meter is 850 THB.

Cheers,
Luc
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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby Shastadad » Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:29 am

Thanks, will brave the downtown Pattaya traffic today and see if my Home Pro has it in stock
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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby Destruction Del » Thu May 08, 2014 5:51 pm

I have a couple of things to say on this "Farang surcharge" matter...
It could in all favour of the Electric company be an Earth fault, as Thailand don't really get Earth's that would be my first suspicion... Have a sparky come around with a Megger
(Insulation Resistance Tester) and get him to measure between Live - Earth, Neutral - Earth, Live to Neutral on a 500v test minimum.

You can buy your own meter and install it yourself, Then compare the two readings... Bit of a pain...

If you're really worried that they're just blatantly ripping you off and they keep treating you like a mushroom, Get for instance a 1kw Sodium lamp, isolate every breaker in your consumer unit and connect the load to the spare breaker... If you haven't got a spare breaker, go & buy one... 5A is good enough ,
After you've finished with the breaker you can change that for the 32A breaker that the Thai sparky fitted if you like... Unless you're still on the ancient way of lights and sockets on the same circuit... That petrifies me!

Needless to say you turn on the 1kw load for 1 hour and see what their meter says...


Other than that, link the input and output wires at the meter with a piece of 2.5mm wire and cut your bill by more than half! But I didn't say that :)
In the UK you can buy things called Meter Beaters that do exactly that! But I didn't say that either :o
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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby Destruction Del » Thu May 08, 2014 6:30 pm

schuimpge wrote:The interesting thing I found is: everyone always tells you to put a 30A breaker for each separate aircon (head + compressor).
Did not measure on the head-unit, which I guess is fairly light on the Amps, but the compressor I have on the Master Bed (18000Btu) takes only 6.5 to 7A when it kicks in!
Not sure if that will increase when it gets more hot, have to wait and see for that.

Just very surprised on that. 30A breaker for less than 10A peak-load.
I'm guessing it's a left over from the old days, but anybody have a better explanation for that?

Cheers,
Luc


I've got a very good explanation for that... The sparky wasn't a sparky, As simple AS. He was a C!
There's gonna be a bit of banging and thrashing in that unit if ever there was a serious fault with the compressor... But there again, he's probably only used 1.5mm wire to supply it, which is only good for 20A so there's your real fuse!



Every Air con will tell you it's max load on either the condenser (the inside part), on the outside of the compressor unit or if you're unlucky it'll be on the actual compressor itself (The black round thing that gets really hot in the unit outside).

The peak load is of course when it kicks in as you say, but the current draw will not get that high again until the next time you turn it on when the compressor is at ambient temperature.
It's like riding a bike, once you warm up and get going you don't have to peddle so hard.

Q:
Did you use an Amp Clamp to get your 6.5 - 7A readings or another method?
Where were the readings taken from?
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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby schuimpge » Thu May 08, 2014 7:28 pm

Used a simple KillAWatt meter. During the hottest days, amps same, only compressor runs longer.
Did find that my swamp cooler does not make a difference.. Finished a water block though and will start clamping that post compressor before the radiator, passive cooling with cold condense water and a pump. After that it will be with a peltier to get into active cooling
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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby Shastadad » Fri May 09, 2014 8:11 am

Shastadad wrote:Thanks, will brave the downtown Pattaya traffic today and see if my Home Pro has it in stock


As a follow up, never could find one of these kill-a-watt devices at Home Pro, HomeWorks, or anywhere else but was able to get one from an Ebay seller out of China

power.png



http://www.ebay.com/itm/EURO-power-mete ... f#shpCntId
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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby Destruction Del » Fri May 09, 2014 1:04 pm

It's Kilo-Watt gents...
As in Kilo = 1,000... As in 1,000 grams is a kilogram...

The safest and easiest way to measure Amps are with an Amp clamp.

http://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... ZHyPlAPm4Q



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Re: Electricity charges - A WARNING

Postby schuimpge » Fri May 09, 2014 6:41 pm

Destruction Del wrote:It's Kilo-Watt gents...
As in Kilo = 1,000... As in 1,000 grams is a kilogram...


Gentleman... Or maybe Young Man... It's Kill-A-Watt Meter. Not Kilo... Kill as in 'Kill some Kilowatts'
Don't know what world you live in but: Kill-A-Watt meter is as much an accepted term as Selfie and much older for that matter. :-p
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