LED light bulbs

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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby fredlk » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:26 am

MGV12 wrote:My experience with LED has been generally favourable

I personally would replace "generally" with "overwhelmingly".
MGV12 wrote:As for CFLs ... I hate them and do not have a single one in my house.

Ditto. In my rented house in Bangkok they were everywhere and the air-conditioning had a hard time compensating for the heat they generated.
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby fdi » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:17 pm

MGV12 wrote:
Roger Ramjet wrote:Can't give up on the LEDs' can you MGV12.....I notice you never mentioned the price, make or how you measured the heat above and below. LEDs have a long way to go before I buy any more. I'll stick with my spirals thank you.


Until something even better comes along I will stick with them as an alternative to Incandescent and Halogen bulbs ... both of which I still have a few of. My experience with LED has been generally favourable ... however ... I can understand why others may have a different opinion if that opinion is based on valid evaluation.

As for CFLs ... I hate them and do not have a single one in my house. The only fluorescent tubes are in storage areas that are used infrequently.

http://www.ehso.com/cfl_light_bulbs.htm


these are the ones that i also generally use.
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby MGV12 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:46 pm

fdi wrote:
MGV12 wrote:
Roger Ramjet wrote:Can't give up on the LEDs' can you MGV12.....I notice you never mentioned the price, make or how you measured the heat above and below. LEDs have a long way to go before I buy any more. I'll stick with my spirals thank you.


Until something even better comes along I will stick with them as an alternative to Incandescent and Halogen bulbs ... both of which I still have a few of. My experience with LED has been generally favourable ... however ... I can understand why others may have a different opinion if that opinion is based on valid evaluation.

As for CFLs ... I hate them and do not have a single one in my house. The only fluorescent tubes are in storage areas that are used infrequently.

http://www.ehso.com/cfl_light_bulbs.htm


these are the ones that i also generally use.


Please enlighten us a little more on your choices and reasoning.

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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby MGV12 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:01 am

Without proper energy plan, power bill could double in seven years
Pichaya Changsorn
The Nation August 30, 2014 1:00 am
Official stresses procurement, conservation; warns of widening demand/supply gap of LNG
Electricity tariffs could double to Bt8 per kilowatt-hour in the next seven years, in the worst-case scenario that the country fails to achieve its energy procurement and conservation targets, says a top energy official.

Kurujit Nakornthap, director-general of the Mineral Fuels Department of the Energy Ministry, told a public forum yesterday that under that scenario, Thailand would have to increase its imports of liquefied natural gas (LNG) from 5 per cent at present to 50 per cent of total gas supply within seven years.

"What is worrying is that this gap [between the supply and demand of natural gas] will start [to get large] within just four years, while any planning efforts will take time. The worry is that if we can't reduce energy consumption as planned, this gap will increase, and we will have to import LNG at higher prices or see nobody selling to us," he said.

The forum in Bangkok was part of a series of public hearings intended to receive feedback on a national energy master plan.

Kurujit said his projection was based on an assumption that the price of imported LNG would be twice the current price of locally produced natural gas, which was about US$8 per million British thermal units at the end of last year. The prices of LNG that PTT imported from Qatar last year were between $15 and $16 per million BTU, said Kurujit, who was appointed to PTT's board of directors on July 1.

Speaking to reporters on the sidelines of the conference, he said Thailand's domestic natural-gas reserves would fall to a crisis level in seven to 15 years, a worrying trend considering that gas currently fuels 70 per cent of the country's electricity generation.

To fill the growing energy-supply shortfall, Kurujit said the ministry was preparing to propose several measures to the incoming Cabinet. These would include launching the 21st round of bidding for petroleum exploration and development concessions throughout the country; determining the fate of the Erawan, Bongkot and other petroleum fields in the Gulf of Thailand at least five years before their concessions currently held by Chevron and PTT Exploration and Production expire in 2022-2023; and negotiating a joint development agreement to explore petroleum resources in the overlapping area between Thailand and Cambodia in the gulf.

"And the fourth option … we hope that the energy conservation plan will succeed," he said.

Kurujit said the petroleum fields whose concessions will expire between mid-2022 and early 2023 were the "backbones" or the "arteries" of the country that required substantial investments to maintain their current production rates. So if the concessions are allowed to expire without proper planning, the concessionaires might not continue to drill 500 new wells every year just to keep the current gas production from falling, as they have been doing so far.

Energy permanent secretary Areepong Bhoocha-oom said the National Energy Policy Council recently agreed to put conservation on top of the country's energy-policy agenda, and it had ordered a nationwide shift to LED (light-emitting diode) lighting to help save nearly 2,000 megawatts of electricity annually.


Areepong said the second-most-important item on the agenda concerned rebalancing the country's fuel-supply options to reduce its dependence on natural gas from 65 per cent at present to about 20-30 per cent, substituting it with clean coal and renewable energy.

He said the ministry would submit a 20-year energy master plan to the new Cabinet in October, after completing public hearings in Khon Kaen and Surat Thani next month. About 500 people who took part in the first public hearing held in Bangkok yesterday. They were presented with four main energy plans: a national power development plan (PDP), a renewable-energy development plan, an energy conservation plan, and an energy procurement plan.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/busines ... 42089.html

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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:55 pm

There are three things that conflict here: Firstly the report comes from the Nation - a rag at the best of times. Secondly;
MGV12 wrote:Electricity tariffs could double to Bt8 per kilowatt-hour in the next seven years

Prices normally double every seven years anyway.
And finally; Perhaps if they reviewed their solar power policy for the rich and let people (not corporations) put energy back into the grid like in other countries, then they wouldn't be faced with a shortfall.
If they wished people to buy LED lights, perhaps they should start with Bangkok and other cities street lighting.
But then LED lighting is too expensive and too unreliable.
Still have all spirals with no burn-outs as yet, which is more than I can say for my 2,000 baht plus LED's.
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby MGV12 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:36 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:Can't give up on the LEDs' can you MGV12


Can't give up on the spirals can you RR

Roger Ramjet wrote:Prices normally double every seven years anyway.


I have now been living in LOS for seven years and don't recall electricity ever being two baht ... on a regular domestic user tariff that the likes of you and me would be charged.

I rarely challenge your claims RR [ :roll: ] but would be interested to see evidence to confirm this.

Some partially relevant info: http://www.eria.org/events/Power%20Tari ... ailand.pdf

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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby sirineou » Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:02 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:There are three things that conflict here: Firstly the report comes from the Nation - a rag at the best of times. Secondly;
MGV12 wrote:Electricity tariffs could double to Bt8 per kilowatt-hour in the next seven years

Prices normally double every seven years anyway.
And finally; Perhaps if they reviewed their solar power policy for the rich and let people (not corporations) put energy back into the grid like in other countries, then they wouldn't be faced with a shortfall.
If they wished people to buy LED lights, perhaps they should start with Bangkok and other cities street lighting.
But then LED lighting is too expensive and too unreliable.
Still have all spirals with no burn-outs as yet, which is more than I can say for my 2,000 baht plus LED's.

In order that any number doubles in seven years it has to grow at an average rate of 10.28%
This is determined by the rule of 72 so 72/7= 10.28% or 72/10.28= 7
So the question is, do electric rates in Thailand increase by an average of 10.28% per year?
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:50 pm

sirineou wrote:So the question is, do electric rates in Thailand increase by an average of 10.28% per year?

If I gave an honest answer I'd have men in green breaking down my door. Haven't you read about the board members of EGAT being replaced.
I admit 10% is a little steep, but it's all those "hidden" costs like fuel levy, the proposed 10% GST, the lack of any sort of plan, or to change the plan they already have, and with a rubber stamp parliament there will be no debate, and as I have lived through three coups all based on "what's good for the people" I have less faith than most. etc. To be touting coal is asinine as there is no such thing as "clean coal" and without promoting solar or wind on a domestic scale is also beyond belief.
When you add the disputed Thai Cambodian fields that have not been resolved in 10 years that I know of....just where will the energy come from?

MGV12,
MGV12 wrote:Can't give up on the spirals can you RR

Not until there is a better alternative and LED is miles away from it at present. If LED was an alternative where are the street lights, traffic lights, car headlights etc etc etc.
I have just one decent LED light and that is a very expensive Italian one that cost between 3 and 5,000 baht and the rest are a very expensive 12,000 baht kaput. :D
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:18 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:Not until there is a better alternative and LED is miles away from it at present. If LED was an alternative where are the traffic lights,


Virtually all traffic lights in japan are LED so that's one place where there are hundreds of millions of them (one traffic light uses up to 200).

A reason to change from old bulb lights to LED is the maintance costs (hint Japan expensive ,Thailand cheap). Bulb lights have to get replaced on a regular schedule LED don't and if 1 or 3 LEDs fail it dosen't make much difference to the traffic light, though I've never seen an LED traffic light with a bad LED.

Another reason is weight, LED traffic lights are significantly slimmer than conventional ones so less metal = lighter units so longer life for the support system when fitted as a replacement unit.

So in Thailand low maintance cost high relative replacement cost = no change
In Japan high maintance cost low relative replacement cost = change several years ago, QED.

Also many/most higher end cars have LED rear lights.

So LEDs are good in some applications but not or not yet in others.
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby MGV12 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:35 am

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Also many/most higher end cars have LED rear lights.



They also have front LED 'sidelights' which come on when the ignition is switched on. A useful safety feature that has been standard [law] in Scandinavia for many years now. An absolute boon in Thailand where few turn their lights on when visibility is poor and even at night; assuming of course their lights actually work. They should be mandatory at least on all new motorcycles/scooters ... but most here don't even have reflectors.

Quite common around here to see an apparently roadworthy vehicle that has no lights at night on an unlit road ... usually takes several flashes before they wake up and turn them on. Probably they don't realise it's dark as they aren't looking through the windscreen ... just their iPad/Phone screen while sending text messages or checking social media. :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:55 pm

MGV12 wrote:Without proper energy plan, power bill could double in seven years

This is the article in question and I believe it is about Thailand. I know other countries have LED lights that work wonderfully, as I bought an LED rechargeable torch in Singapore for peanuts that works beautifully. But in Thailand the only LED light that I've found that works is Carini (Italian) and they cost at least 2,000+ to 5,000 baht each for the spotlights. My other LED's that are supposed to be banks of mini spotlights give off so little light it's like a blackout at best or a full eclipse at worst.
The technology that is here is years behind the rest of the world because there is little or no incentive to produce quality products. It's like solar panels, which I mentioned before. Until such time as Thailand throws off the shackles of the Thai "elite" ruling the country, nothing will progress and hasn't for as long as I've been here.
Look at the buses the BMTA bought from China a few years ago. 70% of them are off the road with terminal failure, yet it appears the new batch, 3,200 on order will come from the same supplier, with the same problems because China is a "friend" of the "elite". Never mind the fact that 30 year old Mercedes, Volvo and Misubishi buses are still running strong at the same price.
You cannot convince me that Thailand is moving forwards when half the members here bring over "stuff" they bought in their own country because of the poor quality of the same product here.
Sorry, the jury's still out on quality and affordability and I'm sticking with my spirals no matter what the Nation and Thai "elite" tries to tell me. :D
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby fredlk » Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:29 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:
MGV12 wrote:Without proper energy plan, power bill could double in seven years

This is the article in question and I believe it is about Thailand. I know other countries have LED lights that work wonderfully, as I bought an LED rechargeable torch in Singapore for peanuts that works beautifully. But in Thailand the only LED light that I've found that works is Carini (Italian) and they cost at least 2,000+ to 5,000 baht each for the spotlights. My other LED's that are supposed to be banks of mini spotlights give off so little light it's like a blackout at best or a full eclipse at worst.
The technology that is here is years behind the rest of the world because there is little or no incentive to produce quality products. It's like solar panels, which I mentioned before. Until such time as Thailand throws off the shackles of the Thai "elite" ruling the country, nothing will progress and hasn't for as long as I've been here.
Look at the buses the BMTA bought from China a few years ago. 70% of them are off the road with terminal failure, yet it appears the new batch, 3,200 on order will come from the same supplier, with the same problems because China is a "friend" of the "elite". Never mind the fact that 30 year old Mercedes, Volvo and Misubishi buses are still running strong at the same price.
You cannot convince me that Thailand is moving forwards when half the members here bring over "stuff" they bought in their own country because of the poor quality of the same product here.
Sorry, the jury's still out on quality and affordability and I'm sticking with my spirals no matter what the Nation and Thai "elite" tries to tell me. :D

Three times the "elite" in a post about LED light bulbs. What a load of ........
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby MGV12 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:31 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:But in Thailand the only LED light that I've found that works is Carini (Italian) and they cost at least 2,000+ to 5,000 baht each for the spotlights. My other LED's that are supposed to be banks of mini spotlights give off so little light it's like a blackout at best or a full eclipse at worst.


Maybe you need to get your electricity looked at RR .... perhaps your AC is reversing too frequently :lol:

Words are words and facts are facts ... my fact is that 90% of my LEDs cost less than 200฿ a piece and the outside bulbs [which cost less then 100฿ a bulb] have been on 13 hours a night for four and a half years. That's more than 20,000 hours already and 96% still going strong. They are background/security lighting and only 1-3 Watt but indoors I have up to 7W and when I installed them they were too bright so we dropped those to 5W. The most expensive are 10W floodlights by the parking area and they were 1060฿. LEDs are quite the elite lighting solution in my opinion. :wink:

Availability is improving all the time and even HomePro [who I have criticised in the past] has a reasonable range now in their larger branches. Even a couple of my local material shops have a few now ... and after a bit of prodding from me the electrical wholesalers I use is getting carried away and has a new product every time I go in.

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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby fredlk » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:05 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:If LED was an alternative where are the ............... car headlights

Audi, BMW, Mini, Mazda Mx-5, Mercedes, Volvo, Cadillac ....
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby Roger Ramjet » Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:10 pm

fredlk wrote:Audi, BMW, Mini, Mazda Mx-5, Mercedes, Volvo, Cadillac ....

BMW don't use LED they use laser. http://www.caradvice.com.au/278125/head ... d-v-laser/
If you read what I wrote I was talking about cost..... as the report says it was only cars worth over $200,000 that had LED lights.
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