LED light bulbs

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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun May 11, 2014 11:19 am

BKKBILL wrote:RR, certainly agree with you. LEDs never seem to give off the light claimed on the packaging, not only that but according to researchers at the University of California say when you raise the current up to the level it takes to light a room, nitride-based LEDs stop producing photons at the same rate as low power units, like in your cell phone, According to the research from UCSB's Centre for Energy Efficient Materials, it's because the electrons collide with each other and lose their energy through heat instead of light.

Thanks for that Bill, I knew someone would know. Makes the argument the LED people use about "no heat" being given off a moot point and explains why they burn out easily and why they burn out the unit they are housed in. It would explain why there are so many blackened spaces where they were.
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby schuimpge » Sun May 11, 2014 1:33 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:
BKKBILL wrote:RR, certainly agree with you. LEDs never seem to give off the light claimed on the packaging, not only that but according to researchers at the University of California say when you raise the current up to the level it takes to light a room, nitride-based LEDs stop producing photons at the same rate as low power units, like in your cell phone, According to the research from UCSB's Centre for Energy Efficient Materials, it's because the electrons collide with each other and lose their energy through heat instead of light.

Thanks for that Bill, I knew someone would know. Makes the argument the LED people use about "no heat" being given off a moot point and explains why they burn out easily and why they burn out the unit they are housed in. It would explain why there are so many blackened spaces where they were.


Not sure where the idea comes from that LEDs give off very little heat. They do and on top of that, they are sensitive to heat building up around the bulb. So if you for example isolated your ceiling and did not provide cut-outs for the lights, then you'll ask for trouble. Same holds for armatures that are not providing enough ventilation for bulbs around the screw-fitting.

Have a look at high-output LED setup's for Reef-Tanks and see the massive heatsinks they have..
The heat is on the back of the bulb, not on the front where the light is!
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby jeffandgop » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:30 am

I have purchased Carini down lights which have covers & LEDs for them (as recommended by the Sales Rep)...I see on the LED package (LeKise LED A60) this:
"CAUTION
Do not install this product in (a) totally enclosed recessed fixture". & "Indoor use only."

Q1- What gives? Why the caution or am I safe to use LEDs in covered down lights? My down lights do have an opening at the top/back between the housing & the mounting bracket assembly.....

Q2- I also planned to use LEDs in my outdoor scones which all are encased on 4 sides with decorative glass- should I not use LEDs in my outdoor scones?

Any advice on whether I need to NOT use LEDs in this situation?

Thanks!!
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby fredlk » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:42 am

jeffandgop wrote:LeKise LED A60

1016901.jpg

jeffandgop wrote:Why the caution

It looks like these lamps will give off some heat and therefore need good ventilation.
In my trials I found only one 1.5 watt 30-led lamp that didn't generate heat and so I bought those for my 100-odd sealed lamp-fittings.
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby MGV12 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:05 pm

If a light fitting is designed correctly [not a cheap and nasty PRC item] then LED's will be fine. All bulbs generate heat to some degree and LED's waste the least energy [in generating heat instead of light] in this regard .... 3.4 BTU's/hr compared to CFL's at 30 and Incandescents at a whopping 85.

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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:29 pm

jeffandgop wrote:Do not install this product in (a) totally enclosed recessed fixture". & "Indoor use only."

I asked the same questions at HomePro and was shown (they actually took them out of the box) a number of lamps and light fittings that now have clearly marked maximum lights that can be put in them on stickers inside the fixture itself. I bought a desk lamp that has E27 MAX 11W and a distance drawn of 0.2m. The distance from where to where I can't figure out. It was the same for downlights in regards to maximum wattage, so playing dumb charades I went to various lights and pointed, then pointed to the lamp and other fixtures. I got the thumbs down so many times for LEDs' that I went for spirals and got the thunbs up most of the time.
I'd much prefer to pay 30 baht for a spiral (1w) than 600 baht for an LED that might or might not be suitable.
LEDs' have been scratched from my list of lights after a number of very expensive ones lasted less than a week. Carini is the only one to have passed the test of time at over 2,500 baht so I'm buing all spirals from now on regardless. Of the over 200 spirals I have none have failed in two years and with an adult daughter leaving lights on everywhere the bill is nearly nothing.
LEDs' do not give off the light I want anyway, which I regard as rather piss poor.
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby MGV12 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:08 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote: Of the over 200 spirals I have


Huh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:07 pm

MGV12 wrote:Huh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't forget I have a townhouse as well as the new house....... and I bought a box of 100 X 14 w from Thai Watsadu and as I haven't used them, they must be okay. 200 is pretty close but only about 100 running. A bit like my pool I have one but it's "in reserve". :lol:
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby fredlk » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:15 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote: 200 is pretty close but only about 100 running.

The 10 led's I have here still new in the box also haven't yet failed and I've had them for 3 years, maybe longer. :lol: :lol:
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby jeffandgop » Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:54 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:
jeffandgop wrote:Do not install this product in (a) totally enclosed recessed fixture". & "Indoor use only."

I asked the same questions at HomePro and was shown (they actually took them out of the box) a number of lamps and light fittings that now have clearly marked maximum lights that can be put in them on stickers inside the fixture itself. I bought a desk lamp that has E27 MAX 11W and a distance drawn of 0.2m. The distance from where to where I can't figure out. It was the same for downlights in regards to maximum wattage, so playing dumb charades I went to various lights and pointed, then pointed to the lamp and other fixtures. I got the thumbs down so many times for LEDs' that I went for spirals and got the thunbs up most of the time.
I'd much prefer to pay 30 baht for a spiral (1w) than 600 baht for an LED that might or might not be suitable.
LEDs' have been scratched from my list of lights after a number of very expensive ones lasted less than a week. Carini is the only one to have passed the test of time at over 2,500 baht so I'm buing all spirals from now on regardless. Of the over 200 spirals I have none have failed in two years and with an adult daughter leaving lights on everywhere the bill is nearly nothing.
LEDs' do not give off the light I want anyway, which I regard as rather piss poor.


Home Pro is where I bought the LEDs & Carini downlight fixtures with the "expert" recommendation for housing & LEDs! Thanks for the input..I'm going to give the Carini down lights w/LEDs installed a try...BTW, 40 are dimmable and the other 45 are non-dimmable....I hope when the housing is installed in the ceiling I do not have to worry about any heat issues or fire hazard!!
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby MGV12 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:54 am

Roger Ramjet wrote: A bit like my pool I have one but it's "in reserve". :lol:


I thought the 'pool' was a no-go area .... well I guess in a way it still is :roll: :lol:

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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby MGV12 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:16 pm

Like any 'new' technology the LED bulb hasn't happened overnight and apart from maybe the ultra-expensive [genuine!] Cree-based units it has a long way to go before it becomes the perfect light source. The likelihood is that this will never be allowed to happen ... why that should be is a BIG subject that covers many products and is for [maybe] another day. I am not alone in having great success with low-wattage LED but if you feel the need to match the light output of a 60 Watt, let alone 100 Watt, Incandescent then the scenario changes:

That 60W-equivalent LED: What you don’t know, and what no one will tell you…
Ed Rodriguez -October 30, 2013

Most readers are aware of all the recent hoopla regarding 40- and 60-watt LED versions of standard 40- and 60-watt bulbs. Prices have dropped sharply, appearances have become somewhat standardized and dimmable versions are becoming commonplace. So now most of the media and blogosphere time is spent in infinite speculation about the pros and cons and timing of when we will have such bulbs with built-in Wi-Fi, color tuning, smartphone gadgetry, retail pricing at the $1.50 level, and the pros and cons of the versions at Wal-Mart versus those at Lowe’s and Home Depot.

Perhaps time for a reality check or two... meaningful for the average consumer, who has no little or no clue about CCT, CRI, or heat sinking as they buy light bulbs to simply put light when and where it’s needed and doesn’t need it to be iTunes compatible.

First some facts: For decades consumers have come to assume (a reasonably valid assumption) they can buy almost any CFL and screw it into any place they previously had a 40W or 60 W incandescent bulb. Maybe it would not allow dimming...maybe it was slow to warm up... maybe the color consistency was not as expected... and some “mongrel” brands have proven not to last as long as was thought. In most cases, however, CFLs have proven to be a good return on investment, lasting much longer and sharply reducing electricity costs. The hundreds of millions sold globally suggests they provided pretty much what was expected.

It follows then that consumers now have a similar expectation for LED versions, with even longer life and greater electricity savings, dimming, and even better color consistency. What’s not to like as prices keep coming down?

Let’s shift gears a second. Probably 95% of all UL approved recessed down-light fixtures have, for decades, incorporated simple inexpensive “thermal cutouts”. Why ? Because if a consumer installed an incandescent bulb of higher wattage than recommended, “bad things” could happen in the light fixture. Fixture makers learned early on that if there is a socket, many consumers will assume it’s good for any bulb, which is not expressly warned against.

Back to our story: Turns out that the consumer’s assumption is not valid: that the LED bulb is just another upgrade like the CFL. As noted, folks assumed that anywhere you had the 40W or 60W incandescent, you could screw in the CFL. This is not at all the case for a 40 or 60 watt-equivalent.

Within an LED bulb the internal generation and distribution of heat is such that it “desperately” needs access to cool surrounding air. The fact that it has that metallic housing is irrelevant in restricted air.

That 60 watt Wal-Mart bulb, when operating base down in open air and not even using a shade, has its internal LED case at 85°C, the absolute upper end of what is considered “safe” for full life expectancy. The same deal is true for competitive bulbs. Put a shade around it... and it’s a little warmer. Put it into any kind of base-up socket and it gets a lot hotter and all life expectancy numbers are off the table. Put it into any kind of porch or post light fixture, and it can fry, with its internal power supply components at the cliff edge of failure. Put the lamp in a ceiling-mounted fully enclosed fixture and set the timer for when failure will occur.

In other words, totally unlike incandescent and substantially unlike a CFL, reliability and life expectancy go down hill sharply as soon as you install it anywhere that air is restricted. Guess what? A large percentage of places for LED best value is in those place where access is difficult and air is restricted. LEDs do not target a “table-lamp-only” marketplace.

All A-19 (60 W equivalent) LED manufacturers could solve the problem immediately with a 25 cent fix—a simple “cookbook” thermistor circuit that automatically dims the light to a safe thermal equilibrium level as things are getting too hot—and protects the unknowing consumer against himself. LED luminaire makers have been doing this for some time because they concluded it would be foolhardy not to do it.

We’ve see some mighty big LED bulb recalls in last two years stemming from thermal design carelessness. Before we get too enamored with thoughts of LED lamps that double as party lights or Wi-Fi hot spots, let’s first make sure they meet fundamental expectations as a trustworthy long-life, electricity-saving source of light for basic needs. We’re not there yet because this very real issue is being ignored by every existing supplier, without exception, of 40-, 60-, and 100-watt equivalent A-19 style LED bulbs.

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/le ... -tell-you-

But before you condemn LED light bulbs to the bin read this:

http://blog.lifx.co/2014/02/07/how-hot- ... ght-bulbs/

'We' bought some 9W ["High Output"] LED bulbs yesterday to replace 50W Halogen bulbs in open-face down-lighters. They are of questionable [claimed Thai] manufacture and rated at 30,000 hours. I was a little surprised to note that the light output was in fact higher than the Halogens they replaced ... and the heat emitted below and above was lower. They are similar in appearance to an earlier post and cost 190฿. The Halogen bulbs don't last for more than a few months of light use in that location ... we'll see what happens with these LED replacements.

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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby BKKBILL » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:17 pm

I've had some of that "in reserve" be careful that stuff can knock your socks off.
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:13 pm

BKKBILL wrote:I've had some of that "in reserve" be careful that stuff can knock your socks off.

The army always has something "in reserve". I have a few bottles of ........ ...... Reserve, a very fine wine that get up and maul you, slap you in the face, knock your socks off and cause all sorts of problems in the morning ala "Did I really do that last night"? Reserve is good. Please note I know a few people who drink wine, hence the removal of the name and vintage.

MGV12 wrote:But before you condemn LED light bulbs to the bin read this:

Can't give up on the LEDs' can you MGV12.....I notice you never mentioned the price, make or how you measured the heat above and below. LEDs have a long way to go before I buy any more. I'll stick with my spirals thank you.
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Re: LED light bulbs

Postby MGV12 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:14 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:Can't give up on the LEDs' can you MGV12.....I notice you never mentioned the price, make or how you measured the heat above and below. LEDs have a long way to go before I buy any more. I'll stick with my spirals thank you.


Until something even better comes along I will stick with them as an alternative to Incandescent and Halogen bulbs ... both of which I still have a few of. My experience with LED has been generally favourable ... however ... I can understand why others may have a different opinion if that opinion is based on valid evaluation.

As for CFLs ... I hate them and do not have a single one in my house. The only fluorescent tubes are in storage areas that are used infrequently.

http://www.ehso.com/cfl_light_bulbs.htm

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