Removed Lawyer Post

Post by **dozer** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:52 am

There was a post entitled 'Lawyer to Avoid' which I removed. It was posted on Jan 30 and the last entry was made on Feb 29, 2008.

Although it contained some good info with the basic message 'You gotta be careful when picking a lawyer round here!', it was becoming a flame war just because the particular lawyer that the post was about is liked by some posters and unliked by others. Even though the lawyer wasn't named specifically, it was getting out via unrequested PMs etc., and the entire thread was just going downhill.

In case you were looking for the post that is what happened. As always, on coolthaihouse I maintain the right to modify/edit/remove posts as necessary to keep the integrity of the site intact.

As an aside, I had no personal dealings or particular knowledge about the aforementioned lawyer.

In summary, remember to check recommendations and be careful when picking a lawyer because ultimately the skill and compentance of the lawyer will be a key factor in any legal proceeding that you are pursuing.

Nawty · Post by **Nawty** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:42 am

Exactly and yes of course you reserve the right, but you could have deleted the posts you deemed flameful and left the original and closed the thread.

Its ok, I understand that some people have an interest in the firm, but they should be able to take crticism as well as compliments, the good with the bad so to speak.

Any 'good' company takes crticism well and improves, not tries to hire it and sweep it under the carpet.

Also, anyone who thinks that there are 'NO' incompetant lawyers is asking for problems. Just like there are no incompetant doctors and accountants....in fact no proffessional people in the world are incompentant right ??

Handling it this way just makes them look even more guilty of what they did, or should say, did not do.

As the most heard saying in Los goes....up to you !

"remember to check recommendations" you stated this above and is very good advice...but how do you check recommendations when the real ones are deleted ????

Attila · Post by **Attila** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:58 pm

Nawty wrote: Its ok, I understand that some people have an interest in the firm, but they should be able to take crticism as well as compliments, the good with the bad so to speak.

Nawty, you're missing the point. If someone does not join your crusade against that firm that gives absolutely no indication if that person has "an interest" in that firm.

Some might have a totally different opinion about that firm than you.
Some might have no opinion at all, and thus would not join you anyway.

In one of your last posts of that thread you have indeed accused one member of this forum of having such an "interest in that firm", simply because that member did not join your crusade. I had answered at that time, a long answer, which is gone with that whole thread, and despite having wasted my time for a post nobody is ever going to read, I think dozer's decision was absolutely correct, that thread was not productive anymore.

I think it would be much more productive if you would pick out the key elements of Thai law which you say you learned in the meantime, and present and explain them here. That information would allow us to learn from you, and we would be less prone to fall victim of a shark, whoever it might be.

Nawty · Post by **Nawty** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:41 pm

Understand where you are coming from, but also understand that I in 'fact' know someone is connetced to them.

I have no problem with that at all, in fact I support any ways and means of promoting your business.

But the point is, take the good with the bad. Simple as that.

Just realise that you are not privy to some relevant info, if you would like to be so you understand where I am coming from, then PM me. But I will not force it onto you.

If at the end of the day, only good info is out there, nobody would be able to make an informed opinion.

I am not on a crusade. just want to let otters beware, same as everyone else posts good and bad building methods, same same but different.

Attila · Post by **Attila** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:47 pm

Nawty wrote:If at the end of the day, only good info is out there, nobody would be able to make an informed opinion.

Only good info is good, bad info is useless, that's why it's called "bad", isn't it

Nawty wrote:I am not on a crusade. just want to let otters beware, same as everyone else posts good and bad building methods, same same but different.

Dunno about "otters" but assume it's Aussi slang for "others" ...

In any case, I think you're closing your eyes about what coolthaihouse.com is already doing all the time: Enabling its readers to make an informed decision by making an abundance of information available, good info about good and bad building practices, how to do it, and how not to do it, showing how to avoid getting ripped of. Informing about construction materials and method, and exchanging experience.

Let's have a look at an example - there is a nice article on Dozer's blog about a building czar and how they force you to paying the Obodor for making your building plans, regardless if you have them already or not. Now dozer has not mentioned the name of anyone there anywhere. But he explained how the system works. By giving me that good info, I could save a lot of money. It allowed me to play the system the Thai way, and pay the Thai prices, even if the Thai-farang couples in my area all paid the farang price.

This is what I expect from you, to give this type of information. It does not help me at all if you tell me that a company has not been "good" for you. That same company can be good for others, who knows. Even I have customers who are very happy with my services, who recommend me, and others, who seem to be not so happy, for whatever reason.

Don't tell me in which shop you bought a hammer you did not like, but teach me how to recognize a bad hammer, so wherever I go I will not buy one!

Nawty · Post by **Nawty** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:00 pm

' Only good info is good, bad info is useless, that's why it's called "bad", isn't it '

Thats a ridiculous comment.

Up to you if you do not want the knowledge of bad info to make an informed decision.

Personaly I want it and I know many others do too. It all helps evaluate the situation. You are closing the door to knowing both sides of a company and one day you and people will get burnt, but the ones that previously had the good and bad advice, may not.

Up to you as they say,

Attila · Post by **Attila** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:32 pm

Nawty wrote:' Only good info is good, bad info is useless, that's why it's called "bad", isn't it '

Thats a ridiculous comment.

Relax, dude, there have been tons of smilies in my original quote, especially the

emoticon. No need to get excited.

You use "bad information" as a synonym for "information about bad things" and I make a joke using "bad information" as a synonym for "worthless information".

Where's your Aussi humor gone?

Nawty wrote:Up to you if you do not want the knowledge of bad info to make an informed decision.

Now you make me wonder if you actually read what I said

Attila wrote:Don't tell me in which shop you bought a hammer you did not like, but teach me how to recognize a bad hammer, so wherever I go I will not buy one!

"hammer" in my quote above stands for anything. How can you accuse me, after you read that, that I would "not want the knowledge of bad info to make an informed decision."

Nothing would be further from the truth!

Nawty · Post by **Nawty** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:23 am

Oh my god, talk about run around in circles

In good ozzi your reply is called tongue in cheek with plenty of false smiles to hide the real sheepish meaning.

Never mind, you continue along your yellow brick road with all the good vibes from life and I will face reality.

I like weed too

Attila · Post by **Attila** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:26 pm

Nawty wrote: In good ozzi your reply is called tongue in cheek with plenty of false smiles to hide the real sheepish meaning.

Never mind, you continue along your yellow brick road with all the good vibes from life and I will face reality.

I like weed too

OK, dude, I admit, I can't follow you, not at all, for me it was not smiles but smilies and I haven't seen any sheep around for a long time, and wherever I look I can't see a yellow brick road, I have no clue what you thought I was thinking / saying / meaning, heck, I don't even know it myself anymore, or, hmmm, yes, may be you just took too much of that weed, how about sending some over here, maybe it helps me too, to see that yellow brick road, and hopefully some other nice things, and to face your reality, but nevertheless, it's over, over and out, you win and I give up, I shut up now, won't try to understand you anymore, it's driving me mad, however short that trip, I'd rather not have to go on it ... I won't try to explain you anything anymore

Nawty · Post by **Nawty** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:24 pm

Lol....I downloaded a awesome song the other day. Going to put it on CD and take it into my favourite bar next week and relax with a pipe.

It is reservoir dogs 'magic carpet ride'.

Next time you're in town you are welcome to join if you like. Makes all things so very clear, although it goes so slow.

jazzman · Post by **jazzman** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:40 am

As it has been broadly hinted or assumed that I was vaguely concerned with this saga, I have also had my share of recommendations deleted or edited, and privileges suspended, but that's the prerogative of the site owner who IMHO does a grand job.
I do however either know some of the actors personally or at least know some of the people that know them personally, and also some of the background, so it would be disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
In this comedy of errors and its deleted predecessor, I mainly took a back seat and laughed until I cried; not since the Limey with his foul British bricklayer's vernacular has there been anything so unintentionally witty. It was so surreal it ended up sounding like a rival text for a song on the Sgt. Pepper album. And let's face it, CTH could do with some occasional comic relief. The most poignant statement in the whole thread however, was the deadly accurate metaphor of the hammer shop which I will expand by adding this, (not by way of defending its author, but to promote a fairer way of recommending or not recommending a service):

If a customer doesn't give the hardware store the right information about what he needs the hammer for, he runs a fair risk of being sold the wrong hammer; if he allows his friends and relations to confuse the salesman with conflicting reasons for wanting a hammer, he runs a fair risk of being sold the wrong hammer; when he finally gets the hammer, if the instructions in the box are in a language he doesn't know, it would be an idea to get them translated by a reliable professional - hardware store salesmen are notorious for their linguistic lacunae - otherwise he runs a fair risk of finding that he has still been sold the wrong hammer.
And finally, if he waits so long that the job he wanted the hammer for gets irreparable or the guarantee has expired, he will run a fair risk of finding that even the right hammer from a good shop won't do the trick.

And for those who are new to CTH web forums, it is well to know that:

1. Not everyone who recommends a hardware store is connected with the tool factory - it's just pure coincidence that so many CTH members have piles of broken hammers in their backyards.

2. Having connections is what it is all about, otherwise CTH forums would have no raison d'être - there would be no information to pass on.

3. The CTH board is an intimate community, and due to its vigilant administration, it has not become a chaotic free-for-all like some of the farang forums we could mention. Still, none of us know for certain who is behind ALL the nicknames - it once happened on this very board that two members exchanged postings for months before they realised they were colleagues who shared the same office near Pattaya, thus the 'connected' theory does not need to be cloaked in innuendo.

Now smile - all of you

Nawty · Post by **Nawty** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:53 am

Hmmmm....thought this theory was long gone...I had let it die a natural death.

Must be closer connections than we thunked !!!!!!!

Anyway, they are still highly incompetant, that won't change any time soon.

Forgetting about half of their fee also goes some way to say they either agree they fcuked up and don't deserve it, or they got paid off enough by the other party to forget about it.

Either way......as a girl I know says...."not nice"

thaifly · Post by **thaifly** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:09 pm

Nawty wrote:Hmmmm....thought this theory was long gone...I had let it die a natural death.

Must be closer connections than we thunked !!!!!!!

Anyway, they are still highly incompetant, that won't change any time soon.

Forgetting about half of their fee also goes some way to say they either agree they fcuked up and don't deserve it, or they got paid off enough by the other party to forget about it.

Either way......as a girl I know says...."not nice"

GIDDAY NAWTY ITS THE THAIFLY FROM MAE RIM maybe on the other hand they gave half your fees back ......politely telling u to get lost...as they probabl y had enough of you .its a LOVELY GIDDAY TO ALL ITS THE THAIFLY FROM MAE RIM

jazzman · Post by **jazzman** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:17 pm

Dead but obviously not forgotten as it was mentioned to me recently. Curiosity got the better of me so I checked back. I hadn't even realised that the original thread had been deleted.

Nawty wrote: Forgetting about half of their fee also...

...demonstrates a charitable gesture for a situation where a client may possibly have contributed 50% of the confusion?

I'm not being judgmental, just facetious (it's Pom SOH)

- Or maybe THAIFLY will have touched a nerve. I only remember something about a translation not being very good. The rest is conjecture.
The problem of finding a good lawyer will always exist just as it does for finding any good professional. With or without recommendations, we will never know until we start using them. Until my lawyer, dentist, doctor, architect, accountant does something incompetent I will continue to use them and recommend them and you can all be sure I'm getting no perks for my referrals - they are all as mean as I am

.
It is therefore as impossible to judge an unsubstantiated warning as it is to judge an assumingly incompetent professional who is neither wont nor able to defend him/herself on a farang forum.
Lack of evidence. Open verdict.
Either way, the board administrator seems to have clearly demonstrated his position over the way the matter was reported using the facilities of his site while keeping an admirable NPOV on the topic itself.
I think we have all learned through Naughty's experience and will adjust our actions and reactions accordingly if we are ever unfortunate enough to need to litigate.

The parable of the hammer shop as an hypothesis of reality is an exemplum for any readers who want to take note.

Bygones.

Attila · Post by **Attila** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:09 pm

jazzman wrote:...
Lack of evidence. Open verdict.
...
I think we have all learned through Naughty's experience and will adjust our actions and reactions accordingly if we are ever unfortunate enough to need to litigate.

What do you wanna learn from rants with less than half the facts, obviously driven by an attitude which needs to point out and expose someone / something to blame, blame for being guilty for all the misery in his life and all over the world, just so that nobody, not even he himself might question his own role in that story... Well at least you, Jazzman, you opened my eye for that question, and now it makes a lot of sense, stopping to blame others is impossible, because then, if it wasn't their fault, who else is left to blame

I still think it is better to teach how to recognize a bad fish, than to show a bad fish... but i see now that this would be missing the point of the OP